Buddhism and memory

[robertk]

Sanna : Sujin Boriharnwanaket

[SarathW]

It is as soon as by testing him, he comes to see that he is purified from ideas provocative of lust, hate, and delusion, that he then plants his faith in him. When he visits him he respects him, when he respects him he gives ear, one who gives ear hears the True Idea, he remembers it, he investigates the meaning of the ideas remembered. When he does that he acquires a preference by pondering the ideas. That produces interest. One interested is actively committed. So committed he makes a judgment. According to his judgment he exerts himself. When he exerts himself he comes to realize with the body the ultimate truth, and he sees it by the penetrating of it with understanding. That is how there is discovery of truth. But there is as yet no final arrival at truth. How is truth finally arrived at? Final arrival at truth is the repetition, the keeping in being, the development, of those same ideas. That is how there is final arrival at truth."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nymo.html

[Bundokji]

It is as soon as by testing him, he comes to see that he is purified from ideas provocative of lust, hate, and delusion, that he then plants his faith in him. When he visits him he respects him, when he respects him he gives ear, one who gives ear hears the True Idea, he remembers it, he investigates the meaning of the ideas remembered. When he does that he acquires a preference by pondering the ideas. That produces interest. One interested is actively committed. So committed he makes a judgment. According to his judgment he exerts himself. When he exerts himself he comes to realize with the body the ultimate truth, and he sees it by the penetrating of it with understanding. That is how there is discovery of truth. But there is as yet no final arrival at truth. How is truth finally arrived at? Final arrival at truth is the repetition, the keeping in being, the development, of those same ideas. That is how there is final arrival at truth."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nymo.html

Thank you for sharing.

In the same sutta, remembering is linked to penetrating the meaning:

"But what quality is most helpful for coming to an agreement through pondering dhammas?..."

"Penetrating the meaning... If one didn't penetrate the meaning, one wouldn't come to an agreement through pondering dhammas..."

"But what quality is most helpful for penetrating the meaning?..."

"Remembering the Dhamma... If one didn't remember the Dhamma, one wouldn't penetrate the meaning..."

"But what quality is most helpful for remembering the Dhamma?... "

"Hearing the Dhamma... If one didn't hear the Dhamma, one wouldn't remember the Dhamma..."

The above bring us to the relationship between memory and logic. Logic works on identifying patterns that persists in time, often described as pondering, hence linked to safeguarding the truth:

"If a person likes something... holds an unbroken tradition... has something reasoned through analogy... has something he agrees to, having pondered views, his statement, 'This is what I agree to, having pondered views,' safeguards the truth. But he doesn't yet come to the definite conclusion that 'Only this is true; anything else is worthless.' To this extent, Bharadvaja, there is the safeguarding of the truth. To this extent one safeguards the truth. I describe this as the safeguarding of the truth. But it is not yet an awakening to the truth.

Linking definite conclusions to "only this is true, everything else is worthless" is interesting. The truth value of a claim is often tested by a counter claim, hence verbal eloquence and clarity in defending (or safeguarding) a claim is given primacy as a measure to test how delusional a claim is.

From the three poisons of greed, hatred and delusion, the later appears to be most linked to wisdom. An action might appear as greedy or aversive until the intention behind it is questioned to determine if it is based on delusion or not. Explaining an action through "reason" has memory as its function.

[Bundokji]

Several studies have explored the determinants of anthropomorphism: the tendency to endow nonhuman agents with human features, goals, and intentions. Less is known of the cognitive benefits that may arise from anthropomorphism. Following research in narrative comprehension, we explored how the attribution of human-like features and intentional goals to nonhuman agents might benefit memory for events. Experiments 1 and 2 demonstrated that anthropomorphic descriptions and intentional goals independently contributed to improved narrative memory. A third experiment revealed that these effects were mediated by participants' attributions of agency. We conclude that anthropomorphic descriptions and intentional behavior jointly support a schematic framework for remembering events.

Would it be accurate to say that memory is rooted in anthropomorphism whereas sati is not?

In DN1, certain concentration practices can lead to memories of past lives that still depend on contact and the six sense media.

[justindesilva]

Several studies have explored the determinants of anthropomorphism: the tendency to endow nonhuman agents with human features, goals, and intentions. Less is known of the cognitive benefits that may arise from anthropomorphism. Following research in narrative comprehension, we explored how the attribution of human-like features and intentional goals to nonhuman agents might benefit memory for events. Experiments 1 and 2 demonstrated that anthropomorphic descriptions and intentional goals independently contributed to improved narrative memory. A third experiment revealed that these effects were mediated by participants' attributions of agency. We conclude that anthropomorphic descriptions and intentional behavior jointly support a schematic framework for remembering events.

Would it be accurate to say that memory is rooted in anthropomorphism whereas sati is not?

In DN1, certain concentration practices can lead to memories of past lives that still depend on contact and the six sense media.

Speaking of anthromorphimism reminds me that it is well accepted that elephants have a wonderful memory and remebers people who try to harm them by smell. I have this experience once of an elephant attacking that person way out of time. And another elephant waiting until the opponent arrived home. Another elephant punishing a child who tried to cheat the elephant trying to hide sweets after producing it. Cobras are also notorious in pursuing their enemies once an attack on them is made. In a recent true incident where a person cut the tree a cobra associated with , and this person was bitten after she returned home weeks later. (True incident close to my home).
There may be other animals with similar memories as these elephants and cobras.

[Pulsar]

Dear Bundokji: I kinda know the answer to your question....
Why did the Buddha not teach about memory? Or why

the term "memory" has not been explicitly mentioned or included in the teachings,

as you say.
Perhaps you can listen to a country song on Youtube, and the answer will dawn on you. Let me see if I can fetch it. It does not let me, you would have to go to You tube and search for "How could I love her so much and lose her so quickly" by Johnny Rodriguez.
As for underlying tendencies, it really is not an obsession, and I am sure Thanissaro did not mean it like that.
In which context did he use it so?
With love

[Bundokji]

As for underlying tendencies, it really is not an obsession, and I am sure Thanissaro did not mean it like that.
In which context did he use it so?
With love

In his translation of Anusaya sutta he translates it as obsessions, with the following note:

This term — anusaya — is usually translated as "underlying tendency" or "latent tendency." These translations are based on the etymology of the term, which literally means, "to lie down with." However, in actual usage, the related verb (anuseti) means to be obsessed with something, for one's thoughts to return and "lie down with it" over and over again.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

[Pulsar]

OP wrote

In his translation of Anusaya sutta he translates it as obsessions, with the following note:

I checked out AN 7.11. It opens up another can of worms. I don't have time to get into that right now. But maybe someday?
Each genuine interaction helps me a little more, so thank you.
With love

[justindesilva]

As for underlying tendencies, it really is not an obsession, and I am sure Thanissaro did not mean it like that.
In which context did he use it so?
With love

In his translation of Anusaya sutta he translates it as obsessions, with the following note:

This term — anusaya — is usually translated as "underlying tendency" or "latent tendency." These translations are based on the etymology of the term, which literally means, "to lie down with." However, in actual usage, the related verb (anuseti) means to be obsessed with something, for one's thoughts to return and "lie down with it" over and over again.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Frim what I have read before Anusaya is latent tendencies. It is provocations of ashrava . Ashrava also called fermentations can be understood as hormones like oxotocins etc. which are responsible for love, anger, and other emotions. For a clearer understanding lets read Sabbasawa sutta, that explains seven means of controlling emotions . A deep thinking can make one understand that what is controlled by the seven methods in sabbasava sutta are nothing but the latent arising of hormones.
Something to investigate . Is it not. Hormones are , I understand fermentations or asrava that is anusaya.

[Bundokji]

Are there are explanations in the suttas or commentaries as to why forgetting past lives is the standard?

[wenjaforever]

The aim of the Buddha's teachings is to end suffering/stress. The teachings talks about the mind, Kamma, self view, cause and effect, past lives ...etc all of which memory plays central role, and yet, as far as i know, the term "memory" has not been explicitly mentioned or included in the teachings.

Why?

The aim of an arahat or Buddha is to escape samsara. You don't seem to understand the dhamma. Gautama gave up his kingdom because he knows it's futile and useless. Your memory card is samsara itself.

[Bundokji]

Your memory card is samsara itself.

Reference?

[wenjaforever]

Are there are explanations in the suttas or commentaries as to why forgetting past lives is the standard?

It's just common sense and accepted fact. If you went through rebirth you get a brand new brain and body, how can you remember past lives? You need rddhi to achieve clairvoyance.

[Bundokji]

It's just common sense and accepted fact. If you went through rebirth you get a brand new brain and body, how can you remember past lives? You need rddhi to achieve clairvoyance.

The Buddha had a brand new brain and body in his last life and he was able to remember his past lives. If we take one life model, cells in the body and brain change continuously, but most people are still able to remember events based on corporeal existence. Newly born babies seek their mother's breast without being taught, which is a memory of some sort needed to maintain corporeal existence.

It seems that based on utility, by and large, people can get by without remembering past lives. The spiritual utility of remembering past lives is unclear. Devas and Maras wintess people in lower realms passing away and being reborn, and they are still deluded.

[Bundokji]

Are we allowed in the doctrine of the noble ones to remind each other of our past lives? For example, Ven. Maha-Moggallana reminded Mara of his previous life, so why would it be an offense to remind Mara but not a human being?

In worldly affairs, we tend to remind each other of things or events that took place in the past. If we extend this to rebirth, then those who remember past lives are able to remember encountering each other in past lives as with Ven. Maha-Moggallana and the current Mara.

The utility of this could be related to examining one's own convictions and intentions about the teachings. For example, i cannot be sure if my interest in Buddhism is driven by ill-adjustment in worldly affairs (hence following Buddhism would be an act of escapism) or whether being here is due to encountering the teachings in the past, so when i heard about it in this life, it triggered interest.

In general, asking ourselves: why i am here is encouraged by some respectable Buddhist teachers such as Ajahn Chah.

Does anyone know if i was here in a previous life i.e some old disciple of the Buddha?

Thank you