Do only Buddhists have Saddha (conviction)?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
User avatar
Johann
Posts: 619
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Do only Buddhists have Saddha (conviction)?

Post by Johann »

justindesilva wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:23 am
Johann wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:25 pm
SarathW wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:41 am

Faith of sotapanna-magga is still a "blind faith", so it's not so that people are actually required to simple have "blind" faith. Only when Phala arises one does no more act on "blind faith", as certain Vimutti has been gained.

But if taking "hearing the good Dhamma with proper attention" as root, mūla, such wouldn't be wrong. Yet to go for that, even right here, requires "blind faith". Only who knows liberation, it's path, isn't required to follow the training simply on "blind faith".

Faith-follower, Dhamma-follower, althought bond to gain insight before death, still act on "blind faith", but got the mūla, hearing the good Dhamma.
In vattupama sutta lord budda with the cloth simile, explained that by abandoning 16 defilements faith in budda damma sangha is achieved. Then by virtue of compassionate mindfulness etc. marga phala is achieved.
Here it is worth to note that faith is achieved by clearing the 16 defilements. And this faith is on qualities of budda, damma and sangha while it is not the physicals of buddha and sangha.
Sadhu for adding literary reference, good householder.
SarathW
Posts: 21184
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Do only Buddhists have Saddha (conviction)?

Post by SarathW »

Venerable Pemasiri says that the Westerners who search for what is wholesome and what is unwholesome have Saddha.
It is not necessary to have a devotion to Buddha.
I suggest you listen to the whole video.
This video was my first introduction to this monk about two years ago.

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
User avatar
Mumfie
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:43 pm

Re: Do only Buddhists have Saddha (conviction)?

Post by Mumfie »

SarathW wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:12 am Venerable Pemasiri says that the Westerners who search for what is wholesome and what is unwholesome have Saddha.
It is not necessary to have a devotion to Buddha.
I suggest you listen to the whole video.
This video was my first introduction to this monk about two years ago.
But in your earlier post you paraphrase him as saying:
SarathW wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:20 am In the following video, Venerable Pemasiri mentioned that only Buddhists have Saddha.
So what's happened? Has he changed his mind in the interval between the two videos? Or does he think that a Westerner searching for what's wholesome counts as an honorary Buddhist?
“Hobgoblin, nor foul fiend,
Shall daunt his spirit;”
John Bunyan, Pilgrim’s Progress II)
SarathW
Posts: 21184
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Do only Buddhists have Saddha (conviction)?

Post by SarathW »

Mumfie wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:24 am
SarathW wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:12 am Venerable Pemasiri says that the Westerners who search for what is wholesome and what is unwholesome have Saddha.
It is not necessary to have a devotion to Buddha.
I suggest you listen to the whole video.
This video was my first introduction to this monk about two years ago.
But in your earlier post you paraphrase him as saying:
SarathW wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:20 am In the following video, Venerable Pemasiri mentioned that only Buddhists have Saddha.
So what's happened? Has he changed his mind in the interval between the two videos? Or does he think that a Westerner searching for what's wholesome counts as an honorary Buddhist?
Good observation. :clap:
This will tell us the difficulty of finding an exact concrete meaning for the terms.
It is like trying to name the rainbow colors.
Conventionally we say that there are seven colors, but if you go to a paint shop you can many thousands of colors.
We should not be dogmatic with anything we learn.
Discard even the raft when you cross the flood.
By the way, in this video, Venerable clearly says that he has no wisdom perhaps very little. He once even said he is still just a Putujana,
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
User avatar
Johann
Posts: 619
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Do only Buddhists have Saddha (conviction)?

Post by Johann »

SarathW wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:44 am
Mumfie wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:24 am
SarathW wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:12 am Venerable Pemasiri says that the Westerners who search for what is wholesome and what is unwholesome have Saddha.
It is not necessary to have a devotion to Buddha.
I suggest you listen to the whole video.
This video was my first introduction to this monk about two years ago.
But in your earlier post you paraphrase him as saying:
SarathW wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:20 am In the following video, Venerable Pemasiri mentioned that only Buddhists have Saddha.
So what's happened? Has he changed his mind in the interval between the two videos? Or does he think that a Westerner searching for what's wholesome counts as an honorary Buddhist?
Good observation. :clap:
This will tell us the difficulty of finding an exact concrete meaning for the terms.
It is like trying to name the rainbow colors.
Conventionally we say that there are seven colors, but if you go to a paint shop you can many thousands of colors.
We should not be dogmatic with anything we learn.
Discard even the raft when you cross the flood.
By the way, in this video, Venerable clearly says that he has no wisdom perhaps very little. He once even said he is still just a Putujana,
Faithless listening/teaching faithless, although dana, isn't on any side purified, not to speak of boths, bear less fruit and doesn't increase Nissaya toward the Gems: as good householder => dpubts remain.
Post Reply