Divine Tears

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Kusala
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Divine Tears

Post by Kusala »

...Siddartha turned
Eyes gleaming with divine tears to the sky,
Eyes lit with heavenly pity to the earth;
From sky to earth he looked, from earth to sky,
As if his spirit sought in lonely flight
Some far-off vision, linking this and that,
Lost, past, but searchable, but seen, but known.

Then cried he, while his lifted countenance
Glowed with the burning passion of a love
Unspeakable, the ardour of a hope
Boundless, insatiate: "Oh! suffering world,
Oh! known and unknown of my common flesh,
Caught in this common net of death and woe,
And life which binds to both!

I see, I feel
The vastness of the agony of earth,
The vainness of its joys, the mockery
Of all its best, the anguish of its worst;
Since pleasures end in pain, and youth in age,
And love in loss, and life in hateful death,
And death in unknown lives, which will but yoke
Men to their wheel again to whirl the round
Of false delights and woes that are not false.

Me too this lure hath cheated, so it seemed
Lovely to live, and life a sunlit stream
For ever flowing in a changeless peace;
Whereas the foolish ripple of the flood
Dances so lightly down by bloom and lawn
Only to pour its crystal quicklier
Into the foul salt sea. The veil is rent
Which blinded me!

I am as all these men
Who cry upon their gods and are not heard
Or are not heeded—yet there must be aid!
For them and me and all there must be help!
Perchance the gods have need of help themselves
Being so feeble that when sad lips cry
They cannot save! I would not let one cry
Whom I could save! How can it be that Brahm
Would make a world and keep it miserable,
Since, if all-powerful, he leaves it so,
He is not good, and if not powerful,
He is not God?—Channa! lead home again!


https://www.gutenberg.org/files/8920/89 ... k2H_4_0004
"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "
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Johann
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Re: Divine Tears

Post by Johann »

Is the dhammic story part of the topic the way people use the lable Lord Buddha as replacement for "a Lord Jesus" agains his father, good householder?
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Sam Vara
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Re: Divine Tears

Post by Sam Vara »

Johann wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 1:19 pm Is the dhammic story part of the topic the way people use the lable Lord Buddha as replacement for "a Lord Jesus" agains his father, good householder?
If I have understood you correctly, the answer is no, it's not.
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Radix
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Re: Divine Tears

Post by Radix »

The text in the OP is from this book:
The Light of Asia, or The Great Renunciation (Mahâbhinishkramana), is a book by Sir Edwin Arnold. The first edition of the book was published in London in July 1879.

In the form of a narrative poem, the book endeavours to describe the life and time of Prince Gautama Buddha, who, after attaining enlightenment, became the Buddha, The Awakened One. The book presents his life, character, and philosophy in a series of verses. It is a free adaptation of the Lalitavistara.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Light_of_Asia
The Lalitavistara Sūtra is a Sanskrit Mahayana Buddhist sutra that tells the story of Gautama Buddha from the time of his descent from Tushita until his first sermon in the Deer Park at Sarnath near Varanasi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lalitavistara_S%C5%ABtra
This topic belongs, at best, into "Connections to other paths".
Western Buddhism is the perfect ideological supplement to rabid consumerist capitalism.
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Dhammapardon
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Re: Divine Tears

Post by Dhammapardon »

Beautiful story. Thank you for sharing.
Just as a bird, wherever it goes, flies with its wings as its only burden; so too is he content with a set of robes to provide for his body and almsfood to provide for his hunger. Wherever he goes, he takes only his barest necessities along. This is how a monk is content.(DN11)
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Johann
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Re: Divine Tears

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Sam Vara wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 1:40 pm
Johann wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 1:19 pm Is the dhammic story part of the topic the way people use the lable Lord Buddha as replacement for "a Lord Jesus" agains his father, good householder?
If I have understood you correctly, the answer is no, it's not.
So maybe good householder didn't get the "coded" message for those able to be very attentive.

It's of no use to paint the Gems as revolts against their parents, gods, use them for destruction of societies and families. For it's just a trading in and kick others out purpose, causing another strong decay and those "Buddhas" have many names, beloved by poor and lazy men.
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Re: Divine Tears

Post by Johann »

Dhammapardon wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:21 pm Beautiful story. Thank you for sharing.
There are people, many, who rejoice when offered poison, thinking "what a gain", an die off right then.

To be clear, that's a 100% fake story with a very destructive agenda.

Nobody can leave house, world, really without gratitude. Those who do without, are just for prepairing, going, for war, ever back.
Last edited by Johann on Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Divine Tears

Post by Sam Vara »

Johann wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:44 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 1:40 pm
Johann wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 1:19 pm Is the dhammic story part of the topic the way people use the lable Lord Buddha as replacement for "a Lord Jesus" agains his father, good householder?
If I have understood you correctly, the answer is no, it's not.
So maybe good householder didn't get the "coded" message for those able to be very attentive.
Maybe. What coded message did good perpetual novice get through being very attentive?
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Mumfie
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Re: Divine Tears

Post by Mumfie »

Radix wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:01 pm It is a free adaptation of the Lalitavistara.
The Wiki entry gives no citation for this claim and I'm quite sure it's mistaken. The Light of Asia isn't even the tiniest bit like the Lalitavistara, a fanciful Mahayana Buddha biography in which the Buddha's life is depicted as just a magic show.

As stated by himself, Arnold's principal sources were Robert Spence Hardy's Manual of Buddhism (1853) and Samuel Beal's The Romantic Legend of Sakya Buddha (1875).

In Spence Hardy's book the account of the Buddha's life is from Sinhalese and Pali sources, while Beal's book is an English translation of the Chinese translation of the Abhiniṣkramaṇa Sūtra, a Buddha biography of the Dharmaguptaka school. Both sources are quite unlike the Lalitavistara. For the most part the Abhiniṣkramaṇa is much like the Pali Nidānakathā.
“Hobgoblin, nor foul fiend,
Shall daunt his spirit;”
John Bunyan, Pilgrim’s Progress II)
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Radix
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Re: Divine Tears

Post by Radix »

Mumfie wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:17 amThe Wiki entry gives no citation for this claim and I'm quite sure it's mistaken.
Would you care to correct the Wiki entry then?
In Spence Hardy's book the account of the Buddha's life is from Sinhalese and Pali sources, while Beal's book is an English translation of the Chinese translation of the Abhiniṣkramaṇa Sūtra, a Buddha biography of the Dharmaguptaka school. Both sources are quite unlike the Lalitavistara. For the most part the Abhiniṣkramaṇa is much like the Pali Nidānakathā.
The text in the OP sounds very much like Mahayana, or a christian(ized) text. The Buddha of the Pali suttas wouldn't indulge in such emotionalism.
Western Buddhism is the perfect ideological supplement to rabid consumerist capitalism.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Divine Tears

Post by Sam Vara »

Radix wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:00 pm
Mumfie wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:17 amThe Wiki entry gives no citation for this claim and I'm quite sure it's mistaken.
Would you care to correct the Wiki entry then?
In Spence Hardy's book the account of the Buddha's life is from Sinhalese and Pali sources, while Beal's book is an English translation of the Chinese translation of the Abhiniṣkramaṇa Sūtra, a Buddha biography of the Dharmaguptaka school. Both sources are quite unlike the Lalitavistara. For the most part the Abhiniṣkramaṇa is much like the Pali Nidānakathā.
The text in the OP sounds very much like Mahayana, or a christian(ized) text. The Buddha of the Pali suttas wouldn't indulge in such emotionalism.
Any Buddha is welcome in the "Dhammic Stories" section.
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Re: Divine Tears

Post by Dhammapardon »

Johann wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:47 pm
Dhammapardon wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:21 pm Beautiful story. Thank you for sharing.
There are people, many, who rejoice when offered poison, thinking "what a gain", an die off right then.

To be clear, that's a 100% fake story with a very destructive agenda.
Oh I see, yes I understand it as a fake story and not in line with the teachings. I did enjoy it for simply being a dramatic story. Maybe not right to favor publicly because this is not a creative writing forum.
Just as a bird, wherever it goes, flies with its wings as its only burden; so too is he content with a set of robes to provide for his body and almsfood to provide for his hunger. Wherever he goes, he takes only his barest necessities along. This is how a monk is content.(DN11)
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Mumfie
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Re: Divine Tears

Post by Mumfie »

Radix wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:00 pm Would you care to correct the Wiki entry then?
I'm afraid I'm not a Wiki contributor.
Radix wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:00 pmThe text in the OP sounds very much like Mahayana, or a christian(ized) text.
To me it seems reminiscent of:

* The opening of the Buddha Apadāna.
* The Patisambhidamagga's account of a Bodhisatta's great compassion (mahākārunā).
* The anti-theistic musings in the Bhūridatta Jātaka.
* The Nidānakathā – the Theravāda's first Buddha biography.
Radix wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:00 pmThe Buddha of the Pali suttas wouldn't indulge in such emotionalism.
The passage isn't describing "the Buddha of the Pali suttas". Rather, it's describing the Bodhisatta of the Pali suttas after his encounter with the third of the four devadūtas (death) and from the point of view of a narrator who accepts the fully-developed commentarial conception of bodhisattaship (i.e., the ten paramitā doctrine and the idea of bodhisattaship being a multi-lifetime project).
“Hobgoblin, nor foul fiend,
Shall daunt his spirit;”
John Bunyan, Pilgrim’s Progress II)
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Johann
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Re: Divine Tears

Post by Johann »

Maybe good to share the Dhammic story about it
- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

"Monks, I lived in refinement, utmost refinement, total refinement. My father even had lotus ponds made in our palace: one where red-lotuses bloomed, one where white lotuses bloomed, one where blue lotuses bloomed, all for my sake. I used no sandalwood that was not from Varanasi. My turban was from Varanasi, as were my tunic, my lower garments, & my outer cloak. A white sunshade was held over me day & night to protect me from cold, heat, dust, dirt, & dew.

"I had three palaces: one for the cold season, one for the hot season, one for the rainy season. During the four months of the rainy season I was entertained in the rainy-season palace by minstrels without a single man among them, and I did not once come down from the palace. Whereas the servants, workers, & retainers in other people's homes are fed meals of lentil soup & broken rice, in my father's home the servants, workers, & retainers were fed wheat, rice, and meat.

"Even though I was endowed with such fortune, such total refinement, the thought occurred to me: 'When an untaught, run-of-the-mill person, himself subject to aging, not beyond aging, sees another who is aged, he is horrified, humiliated, & disgusted, oblivious to himself that he too is subject to aging, not beyond aging. If I — who am subject to aging, not beyond aging — were to be horrified, humiliated, & disgusted on seeing another person who is aged, that would not be fitting for me.' As I noticed this, the [typical] young person's intoxication with youth entirely dropped away.

"Even though I was endowed with such fortune, such total refinement, the thought occurred to me: 'When an untaught, run-of-the-mill person, himself subject to illness, not beyond illness, sees another who is ill, he is horrified, humiliated, & disgusted, oblivious to himself that he too is subject to illness, not beyond illness. And if I — who am subject to illness, not beyond illness — were to be horrified, humiliated, & disgusted on seeing another person who is ill, that would not be fitting for me.' As I noticed this, the healthy person's intoxication with health entirely dropped away.

"Even though I was endowed with such fortune, such total refinement, the thought occurred to me: 'When an untaught, run-of-the-mill person, himself subject to death, not beyond death, sees another who is dead, he is horrified, humiliated, & disgusted, oblivious to himself that he too is subject to death, not beyond death. And if I — who am subject to death, not beyond death — were to be horrified, humiliated, & disgusted on seeing another person who is dead, that would not be fitting for me.' As I noticed this, the living person's intoxication with life entirely dropped away."

AN 3.38

A king wonders: "Why have you gone forth?"

Hearing the messenger's words,
the noble warrior king
straight away went by royal coach,
out to Mount Pandava.
Going as far as the coach would go,
he got down, went up on foot,
and on arrival sat down.
Sitting there,
he exchanged courteous greetings,
then said:
"You are young, youthful,
in the first stage of youth,
endowed with the stature & coloring
of a noble-warrior.
You would look glorious
in the vanguard of an army,
arrayed with an elephant squadron.
I offer you wealth : enjoy it.
I ask your birth : inform me."

"Straight ahead, your majesty,
by the foothills of the Himalayas,
is a country consummate
in energy & wealth,
inhabited by Kosalans:
Solar by clan,
Sakyans by birth.
From that lineage I have gone forth,
but not in search of sensual pleasures.
Seeing the danger in sensual pleasures
— and renunciation as rest —
I go to strive.
That's where my heart delights."

Snp III.1




I will tell
of how
I experienced
samvega.
Seeing people floundering
like fish in small puddles,
competing with one another–

as I saw this,
fear came into me.

The world was entirely
without substance.
All the directions
were knocked out of line.
Wanting a haven for myself,
I saw nothing
that wasn’t laid claim to.
Seeing nothing in the end
but competition,
I felt discontent.


Rather than trying to solve the problem by looking for a larger puddle for himself or his fellow fish, he looked inside to see why people would want to be fish in the first place. What he found was an arrow embedded in his own heart:



And then I saw
an arrow here,
so very hard to see,
embedded in the heart.
Overcome by this arrow
you run in all directions.
But simply
on pulling it out
you don’t run,
you don’t sink.

Sn 4:15
Common people prefer to go into war against what ever authority they think that it blocks their access to desired sensuality, and it's easy to call on revolts by it.
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