The empty throne to represent Sakyamuni in early buddhism

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and scriptures.
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Milinda
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The empty throne to represent Sakyamuni in early buddhism

Post by Milinda »

PRE-ICONIC or ANICONIC PHASE: 5th century BCE – 1st century BCE

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Although India had a long sculptural tradition and a mastery of rich iconography, the portrayal of Buddha in human form did not occur. This period is referred to as the Aniconic Phase. Artists were reluctant to depict the Buddha anthropomorphically, and developed sophisticated aniconic symbols to avoid doing so. Buddha was represented only through his symbols – an empty throne, the Bodhi tree, the Buddha’s footprints [Buddhapada], the prayer wheel [Dharamchakra].

In my opinion that representation catches better the teaching than the greek-based statue that all of us have seen thousands of time.

The buddha is absent, the throne represents the nobility or the 'conqueror', he is and not is at the same time like Anata.
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Johann
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Re: The empty throne to represent Sakyamuni in early buddhism

Post by Johann »

Milinda wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:03 pm PRE-ICONIC or ANICONIC PHASE: 5th century BCE – 1st century BCE

Image

Although India had a long sculptural tradition and a mastery of rich iconography, the portrayal of Buddha in human form did not occur. This period is referred to as the Aniconic Phase. Artists were reluctant to depict the Buddha anthropomorphically, and developed sophisticated aniconic symbols to avoid doing so. Buddha was represented only through his symbols – an empty throne, the Bodhi tree, the Buddha’s footprints [Buddhapada], the prayer wheel [Dharamchakra].

In my opinion that representation catches better the teaching than the greek-based statue that all of us have seen thousands of time.

The buddha is absent, the throne represents the nobility or the 'conqueror', he is and not is at the same time like Anata.
Good householder. The Sublime Buddha actually didn't allow his Bhikkhus to use an image of him as reminder "people are to much attached to the Body", once Ven. Ananda asked him of what whould be proper to use to remember him, when leaving on wandering.
A Bodhi tree was suggested, having a place under it, reminding on a meditation place. Cetiya wasn't proper, since still living at this time.

How ever, the empty throne has also another meaning:
40. Gotrabhūāñāṇa

Image

This picture illustrates maturity of knowledge (gotrabhū-ñāṇa). Here the aspirant points to the Three Gems upon the ornate throne and signifies that he has finally taken Nibbāna as the object of his meditation. At this stage, he is prepared to transcend the “family” (gotra) of ordinary mortals and progress into the realm of the Noble Ones (ariya), which term also means those who have developed. (replaced wrong text)
Last edited by Johann on Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Johann
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Re: The empty throne to represent Sakyamuni in early buddhism

Post by Johann »

[Q&A] Buddha-images are allowed by the Buddha (at least by monks)? wrote: - Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

Kalingabodhi-Jataka (Kāliṅgabodhijātakaṃ)

..."This monastery, Sir, is left unprovided while the Tathāgata goes on pilgrimage, and there is no place for the people to do reverence by offering fragrant wreaths and garlands. Will you be so kind, Sir, as to tell the Tathāgata of this matter, and learn from him whether or no it is possible to find a place for this purpose." The other, nothing loth, did so, asking, "How many shrines are there?" —"Three, Ānanda." —"Which are they?" —"Shrines for a relic of the body, a relic of use or wear, a relic of memorial [202]" —"Can a shrine be made, Sir, during your life?" —"No, Ānanda, not a body-shrine; that kind is made when a Buddha enters Nirvāna. A shrine of memorial is improper because the connection depends on the imagination only.(?) But the great bo-tree used by the Buddhas is fit for a shrine, be they alive or be they dead." —"Sir, while you are away on pilgrimage the great monastery of Jetavana °° is unprotected, and the people have no place where they can show their reverence. Shall I plant a seed of the great bo-tree before the gateway of Jetavana?" —"By all means so do, Ānanda, and that shall be as it were an abiding place for me."...

202: See Hardy, Eastern Monachism, 216 f. The last class is said to be images of the Buddha. (similar in German translations)
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Johann
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Re: The empty throne to represent Sakyamuni in early buddhism

Post by Johann »

Milinda wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:03 pm like Anata.
More proper would be to see Unbound, as either anatta, not atta, nor neither, nor both, would fit.
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zerotime
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Re: The empty throne to represent Sakyamuni in early buddhism

Post by zerotime »

Johann wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:07 pm
How ever, the empty throne has also another meaning:
40. Gotrabhūāñāṇa

Image

This picture illustrates maturity of knowledge (gotrabhū-ñāṇa). Here the aspirant points to the Three Gems upon the ornate throne and signifies that he has finally taken Nibbāna as the object of his meditation. At this stage, he is prepared to transcend the “family” (gotra) of ordinary mortals and progress into the realm of the Noble Ones (ariya), which term also means those who have developed. (replaced wrong text)
that's very interesting to rethink. It causes a different position in the observer instead imagining an absent Buddha. Thanks!
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Ontheway
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Re: The empty throne to represent Sakyamuni in early buddhism

Post by Ontheway »

What about this...🙏🏻
"Enough, Vakkali! What is there to see in this vile body? He who sees Dhamma, Vakkali, sees me; he who sees me sees Dhamma. Truly seeing Dhamma, one sees me; seeing me one sees Dhamma."
SN 22.87
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
pegembara
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Re: The empty throne to represent Sakyamuni in early buddhism

Post by pegembara »

Seeing anatta or emptiness
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And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
thomaslaw
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Re: The empty throne to represent Sakyamuni in early buddhism

Post by thomaslaw »

All dhammas (such as phenomena arising and arisen by causal condition) are anicca, empty of self (anatta), empty of existence and non-existence (the middle way, e.g.: SN 12.15 = SA 301).

According to SN 20.7, SA 293, SA 297, the Buddha also teaches that dhammas are connected with emptiness (suññata-paṭisaṃyuttā)(pp. 19-20; p. 197):
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Pages 18-21 from Notion of Emptiness in Early Buddhism @Choong Mun-keat.pdf
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