Can I become a monk after I get married?

Balancing family life and the Dhamma, in pursuit of a happy lay life.
Jinny999
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Re: Can I become a monk after I get married?

Post by Jinny999 »

I'm deluded. Confused. Thinks I know a lot, like to teach others, but I myself don't know anything.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Can I become a monk after I get married?

Post by Ceisiwr »

confusedlayman wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:12 am i dont know but why cant you be single and become monk? why u want to marry? is it for xx?
You can say the word. Sex.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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confusedlayman
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Re: Can I become a monk after I get married?

Post by confusedlayman »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 11:18 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:12 am i dont know but why cant you be single and become monk? why u want to marry? is it for xx?
You can say the word. Sex.
No, i feel shy because it is too vulgur to use on buddhist forums
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Dhammapardon
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Re: Can I become a monk after I get married?

Post by Dhammapardon »

confusedlayman wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:49 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 11:18 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:12 am i dont know but why cant you be single and become monk? why u want to marry? is it for xx?
You can say the word. Sex.
No, i feel shy because it is too vulgur to use on buddhist forums
I'm not sure I understand this view.
What makes the word sex too vulgar?
Just as a bird, wherever it goes, flies with its wings as its only burden; so too is he content with a set of robes to provide for his body and almsfood to provide for his hunger. Wherever he goes, he takes only his barest necessities along. This is how a monk is content.(DN11)
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confusedlayman
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Re: Can I become a monk after I get married?

Post by confusedlayman »

Dhammapardon wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 7:04 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:49 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 11:18 pm

You can say the word. Sex.
No, i feel shy because it is too vulgur to use on buddhist forums
I'm not sure I understand this view.
What makes the word sex too vulgar?
Pls dont.. its vulgar for me... its too straight
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Jinny999
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Re: Can I become a monk after I get married?

Post by Jinny999 »

confusedlayman wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:31 pm
Dhammapardon wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 7:04 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:49 am

No, i feel shy because it is too vulgur to use on buddhist forums
I'm not sure I understand this view.
What makes the word sex too vulgar?
Pls dont.. its vulgar for me... its too straight
In my view, if we are honest and truthful/straight forward, our heart becomes clean. As long as we are not using abusive words, it's ok. Sex is not an abusive word. It's just being straight, if you try to hide what you feel or trying to express by using other words, it's like you are trying to hide something or trying to lie, and your heart won't be clean. Any case, up to you how you want to say it. It's just my view.
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StrivingforMonkhood
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Re: Can I become a monk after I get married?

Post by StrivingforMonkhood »

confusedlayman wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:49 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 11:18 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:12 am i dont know but why cant you be single and become monk? why u want to marry? is it for xx?
You can say the word. Sex.
No, i feel shy because it is too vulgur to use on buddhist forums
If you don't feel comfortable using the word, don't use it.

XX is just silly - a real waste of time, a real hindrance towards enlightenment.

Always best to become a monk, if possible (most cannot, however, for various reasons).

Peace and enlightenment.
May we all fulfill our deepest wish for happiness

We are already Buddha
Jinny999
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Re: Can I become a monk after I get married?

Post by Jinny999 »

Jinny999 wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:45 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:31 pm
Dhammapardon wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 7:04 pm
I'm not sure I understand this view.
What makes the word sex too vulgar?
Pls dont.. its vulgar for me... its too straight
In my view, if we are honest and truthful/straight forward, our heart becomes clean. As long as we are not using abusive words, it's ok. Sex is not an abusive word. It's just being straight, if you try to hide what you feel or trying to express by using other words, it's like you are trying to hide something or trying to lie, and your heart won't be clean. Any case, up to you how you want to say it. It's just my view.
Sorry for guiding you wrong, I myself I'm deluded.
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StrivingforMonkhood
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Re: Can I become a monk after I get married?

Post by StrivingforMonkhood »

Jinny999 wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 8:22 amSorry for guiding you wrong, I myself I'm deluded.
We all are.

May we all see more clearly, without delusion, as did the Holy Buddha.

Peace and enlightenment. :anjali:
May we all fulfill our deepest wish for happiness

We are already Buddha
auto
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Re: Can I become a monk after I get married?

Post by auto »

Dhammapardon wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 7:04 pm I'm not sure I understand this view.
What makes the word sex too vulgar?
hmm
https://suttacentral.net/mn124/en/sujato?layout=sidebyside&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote: “But in these eighty years, how many times have you had sex?”
“You shouldn’t ask me such a question.
Rather, you should ask me this:
‘But in these eighty years, how many times have sensual perceptions ever arisen in you?’”
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Virgo
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Re: Can I become a monk after I get married?

Post by Virgo »

Jinny999 wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:22 pm Hi,

If I might wish to become a monk later on in life, since now I'm not ready yet and want to get married. Is this right to do?

Can my future wife able to live alone? Would it be right to leave her alone?

Thanks
One thing I can say is that the later you start it, the harder the monk's life will be for you. The earlier you start, the easier it will be to adapt to the lifestyle. Therefore you will make more progress if you start earlier.

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Virgo
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Re: Can I become a monk after I get married?

Post by Virgo »

Jinny999 wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:36 am
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:12 am i dont know but why cant you be single and become monk? why u want to marry? is it for xx?
Na, I have thought a lot about it already. I have read that even lay people can become arahat, only that they will leave the body that day, I don't have problem with this, lay people can keep sila, can meditate just like monk.
Sure, but how many lay people do become Arahants?

Some did traditionally but obviously they had done a lot of work towards it in past lives.

A layperson can keep sila, but the monk practices celibacy as well as many other training rules. When these rules are practiced, one can fully understand their own defilements because they see their power fully as they try to restrain them. Then the person's meditation can go in the right direction.

The monk's lifestyle is a higher lifestyle.

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Dhammapardon
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Re: Can I become a monk after I get married?

Post by Dhammapardon »

auto wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 6:02 pm
Dhammapardon wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 7:04 pm I'm not sure I understand this view.
What makes the word sex too vulgar?
hmm
https://suttacentral.net/mn124/en/sujato?layout=sidebyside&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote: “But in these eighty years, how many times have you had sex?”
“You shouldn’t ask me such a question.
Rather, you should ask me this:
‘But in these eighty years, how many times have sensual perceptions ever arisen in you?’”
I'm not sure I understand.

Sensual perceptions are a finer realization of what abstaining from intercourse aims for. First, one abstains from intercourse. Then one abstains from physical acts of self pleasure. Then one abstains from thoughts of pleasure and so on. Continuing refinement from coarse to fine.

Who asks an 80 year Dhamma practitioner how many times they got laid? An old friend from the lay life, that's who.
I assume hopefully that those with understanding would have some respect for the potential level of refinement achieved after 80 years of dedicated practice and trust they are working on eradication of sensual perception rather than still struggling to abstain from intercourse.

The translation almost sounds like Ven. Bakkula takes offense. Don't assume because it sounds like Ven. Bakkula took offense that they actually took offense. Maybe they were attempting to correct wrong view of the lay questioner from coarse to fine. Saying "Don't ask about intercourse, ask about the finer understanding of arisen desires of sense pleasure". I am not a fan of a certain narration of MN124 due to this particular verbal inference. It leads one to believe Ven. Bakkula became offended at the quality of words in the question which I find quite silly.

Unless of course it's my inference I hear and the Venerable's potential offendedness is toward his lay buddy's missing of the finer question for the coarse question. But this has less to do with termenology and more to do with refinement of understanding.

So I'm still not sure I understand how the word is too vulgar to say or type. I see it as a tool for practicing our own refinement through observing mind and body reaction to the word.

I believe it was Venerable Thanissaro who said "Watch the fear, not the tiger". Or something to that effect.
Just as a bird, wherever it goes, flies with its wings as its only burden; so too is he content with a set of robes to provide for his body and almsfood to provide for his hunger. Wherever he goes, he takes only his barest necessities along. This is how a monk is content.(DN11)
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Re: Can I become a monk after I get married?

Post by auto »

Dhammapardon wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:00 am .
Bakkula were savaka path follower and an anagami, given he mentions two fetters ill-will and sensual perception not arising.

Can read from some other sutta that without sensual perceptions, xx can't happen. Other words he might have referred to the dependent origination, that he should ask about perceptions instead, since when they are not present then also no xx possible. And he were anagami 80 years without sensual perceptions then can assume also no xx. Also it would be wrong to answer "i haven't had any xx" as an savaka path follower.

Interesting is that then he didn't had internal copulation between yin and yang either. Like hibernating 80 years.
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Re: Can I become a monk after I get married?

Post by auto »

Dhammapardon wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:00 am Sensual perceptions are a finer realization of what abstaining from intercourse aims for. First, one abstains from intercourse. Then one abstains from physical acts of self pleasure. Then one abstains from thoughts of pleasure and so on. Continuing refinement from coarse to fine.
interesting to note is
https://suttacentral.net/mn124/en/sujato?layout=sidebyside&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote:‘But in these eighty years, how many times have sensual perceptions ever arisen in you?’”
‘imehi pana te, āvuso bākula, asītiyā vassehi katikkhattuṁ kāmasaññā uppannapubbā’”ti?
the kamasanna is sometimes translated as sensual desire
https://suttacentral.net/an3.33/en/sujato?layout=sidebyside&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote:‘The giving up of sensual desires
‘Pahānaṁ kāmasaññānaṁ,
and aversions, both;
domanassāna cūbhayaṁ;
the dispelling of dullness,
Thinassa ca panūdanaṁ,
and the prevention of remorse.
kukkuccānaṁ nivāraṇaṁ.
which make me think kamasanna overall still means the kamacchanda. It is hindrance what prevents one to enter the jhana.
https://suttacentral.net/mn48/en/sujato?layout=sidebyside&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote: ‘Is there anything that I’m overcome with internally and haven’t given up, because of which I might not accurately know and see?’
If a mendicant is overcome with sensual desire, it’s their mind that’s overcome.
..
They understand,
So evaṁ pajānāti:
‘There is nothing that I’m overcome with internally and haven’t given up, because of which I might not accurately know and see.
‘natthi kho me taṁ pariyuṭṭhānaṁ ajjhattaṁ appahīnaṁ, yenāhaṁ pariyuṭṭhānena pariyuṭṭhitacitto yathābhūtaṁ nappajāneyyaṁ na passeyyaṁ.
The idea is that the mind still knows sensual perceptions, but they don't arise within/related to a person/ajjhatta, which would prevent one to realize jhana. But i think many don't go by that that there is the mind and a person - They need think some other idea.

getting pass the desire, to have internally arisen sensual pleasure, requires jhana i believe. Pitisukha substitutes the sensual pleasure, while the result is same, it doesn't overwhelm the mind what would prevent investigation of principles(dhammatakka) to occur,
wrote:Pure equanimity and mindfulness,
Upekkhāsatisaṁsuddhaṁ,
preceded by investigation of principles—
dhammatakkapurejavaṁ;
this, I declare, is liberation by enlightenment,
Aññāvimokkhaṁ pabrūmi,
the smashing of ignorance.’”
avijjāya pabhedanan’”ti.
I agree it is refinement from coarse to fine.
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