[Jhânas of Pa Auk] conceptual breathing comes naturally?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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DeadBuddha
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[Jhânas of Pa Auk] conceptual breathing comes naturally?

Post by DeadBuddha »

Hi,

For Pa Auk, does the conceptual breath appear naturally after focusing on the non-conceptual (physical) breath? Or do we have to force the appearance of the conceptual breath? According to the monk Pannananda, I feel that we need to force its appearance (see "A Companion Volume To Brief Discussion On Ānāpānasati").

Thanks in advance.

For the sake of all beings.
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Akashad
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Re: [Jhânas of Pa Auk] conceptual breathing comes naturally?

Post by Akashad »

The conceptual breath is a "perception" of the breath.

More subtle and more refined then the gross aspect of the breath,(coolness,hardness,etc).

Its a gradual process.

From focusing on the physical breath,watching it transform into conceptual breath and from that into a light.

The mind can only preceive objects that match its refinement.

You can not force the conceptual breath to form you can only refine your own mind so you can perceive it.

If your mind is gross you can only perceive the coarser aspect of the breath.Its physical characteristics.

When your mind is refined you can perceive the subtle aspect of the breath.

Ways to refine the mind includes:

1. Keeping the sila..you can prep the mind a month in advance just keep the sila.
2.Sense restraint.No tv,no music,no excessive talking,no social media,no phones etc.This is so important.
3.Meditate.

When you start the mind will not be able to stay in one spot,its too gross.

Give your gross mind and object or a task.

Let it stick with the physical characteristics of the breath.

It will move in and out and follow the breath.

Then soon it will settle on a spot or region and you can just feel the physical characteristics of the breath pass through it.

Then soon you will sense like a semi physical sensation more like a pressure.

In my experience...do not move your attention away from the spot where you are feeling the physical sensation to be with this semi physical construct.

So let that semi physical construct or pressure Come to You.

stay at that point. inevitably it will merge with that point where you are feeling the physical breath and it will replace it.

Its not that the physical breath is gone its that your mind is too subtle to register the coarse breath.

Then stay with the conceptual breath.Its more blissful.

Then lights will be start appearing.Again dont leave your object let it come to you.

Just like the conceptual breath replaced the physical breath the lights replace the conceptual breath.

Stay with the light it.Its a more refined perception of the breath.
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Goofaholix
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Re: [Jhânas of Pa Auk] conceptual breathing comes naturally?

Post by Goofaholix »

The concept of the breath is simply observing the breath as one flowing process rather than breaking it down into lots of different changing characteristics as you would with insight meditation.
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“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
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pudai
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Re: [Jhânas of Pa Auk] conceptual breathing comes naturally?

Post by pudai »

Thinking too hard on this... if one places the mind on breathing it is meant as letting go of mind being on breathing as it will start to control the breathing instead of a simple awareness of it taking place. What happens is as soon as one loses the breath... meditation has ceased altogether once that is noticed ignore all the sankhara that arose and go back to breath.

I find sitting meditation easier than bothering with breath as refined breath gets the nose and tongue involved as subtle sensory perceptions and if jhana arises you're off to dream land with those two senses being the land.

What I found about jhana is it turns the wheel; As when one gets disturbed out of it? Either; Greed, hate or delusion follows. In Theravada commentaries ending those is the goal of the coming in and out of jhana using meditation. The Mahayana point to the world as it can be practiced out there to end it; whereas Theravada is the turning within to end it.

All of that is fine and good however; jhana is born out of sankhara and greed, hate and delusion are born out of the skandha... between greed, hate and delusion; the klesha are born.

What that means in the bhavana that tail of the demon is infinite tanha to put out the fire on the six windowed house ignorant that one is aflame with all the sense consciousnesses that built it.

Tearing down that house is easy; meditate on the skandhas one at a time... watch the one chosen arise and pass arise and pass and keep doing that ignoring the other one's... once samatha and vipasana have arisen with it go to another one and watch how it arises and passes arises and passes... don't let them connect just keep focusing on the next one
same as you did with the first... on through the others in the same way. Then watch all five arise and pass and finally how they keep linking up together.

That is the only way I know of to completely uproot them... chasing jhana around in every plane of existence wont do that... as mentioned that just gives birth to the flames of greed, hate and delusion. To put those three out one has to watch kelsha between hate and greed lay jealousy as the biggest one... watch it arise and pass and do not fall for it as it only gives rise to more birth in sankhara or becoming with skandha as the womb.

I recall when Islam called itself a religion of peace... Want to know what happened? The jihad was turned from inner spiritual practice to outer practice. Seeing that as no different than the inner Theravada and the Arhat and outer Mahayana Bodhisatta argument? Means knowing one's range and staying out of another... As far as I know Allah is that spiritual third body; No different than the Hindu Atman that Buddhist's would wisely know as sankhara having created some deities as well... If that's the path Buddhism wants to go too? Then there is no Buddha-dhamma left in the world

:candle:
Last edited by pudai on Mon May 01, 2023 1:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
The six senses accommodate; All the factors of existence... The All.
Apart from; The All... Nothing exists.
The senses are empty of a self & what belongs to a self.
Dhammapardon
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Re: [Jhânas of Pa Auk] conceptual breathing comes naturally?

Post by Dhammapardon »

EDIT: I misread op. :anjali:
Just as a bird, wherever it goes, flies with its wings as its only burden; so too is he content with a set of robes to provide for his body and almsfood to provide for his hunger. Wherever he goes, he takes only his barest necessities along. This is how a monk is content.(DN11)
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