Segregation within the sangha(schism)

[thepea]

I'm afraid of things, but nothing that has been raised in this thread so far. Now, please obey your own injunction to Ceisiwr, and

Well my issue is this was an approved topic for discussion, and all this chatter about the frustration of the repetition is off topic. I have yet to have an open discussion on this topic here, you all avoid it or seem afraid to engage in it.

You're right, the topic was approved for discussion. I think what people are commenting on, however, is the fact that you are using the topic for rehearsing the same unanswerable questions that you have been posting here in huge quantities for 2 years now. How would anyone here know why Goenka Vipassana Centres don't obey your rules? The fact that nobody here can answer that, and never have been able to, leads people to think that you are seeking some sort of emotional gratification from talking obsessively about it, rather than asking genuine questions. My impression is that they are not afraid of anything, but they don't like being played for fools.

If you want, I'll give you some possible answers as to why the Goenka Centres do these things, and you can pick the one you like best.

Please give the possible answers?
You know that if you have the slightest food allergy at a Vipassana centre all measures will be taken to make certain you have a variety of other option and everything will be labelled so you don’t accidentally digest something harmful. But if you have an allergy to covering your face or due to being sexually assaulted and gagged as a child nobody cares. You are ignored and cast aside.
It’s hurtful Sam.

[SDC]

As an individual who CANNOT be vaccinated or wear a face covering or be tested, I CANNOT comply with these new policies. I am medically segregated which was a crime prior to three years ago. But now with zero parliamentary change it’s an accepted corporate practice or at least there is no avenue to receive justice.
This is segregation of the sangha and I’m not alone(there are many globally who this affects, however they may not be as outspoken as me for a variety of reasons. Social and employment persecution is a big reason many do not publicly speak out. I am self employed so I have freedom to speak out. I do receive much support from others when face to face that cannot or refuse to speak out publicly.

Why can’t these centres reverse their policies as the majority of businesses have? Why continue to medically segregate?

The above quoted sutta clearly states this is not to be done.

Can’t be tested for what?

I cannot be tested for anything medically going on with my body by a dhamma centre.
We have medical privacy laws and I cannot give those up.

So, your medical freedom is worth more to you than being a part of the centre. Fair. That’s your choice. Don’t ask the world to bend to your preference though. If getting your way is the top priority, being cooperative won’t always be an option for you. Totally unreasonable to blame the centres. Not because you’re refusing to give up your medical freedom, but you refuse to accept responsibility for your choices.

[thepea]

Can’t be tested for what?

I cannot be tested for anything medically going on with my body by a dhamma centre.
We have medical privacy laws and I cannot give those up.

So, your medical freedom is worth more to you than being a part of the centre. Fair. That’s your choice. Don’t ask the world to bend to your preference though. If getting your way is the top priority, being cooperative won’t always be an option for you. Totally unreasonable to blame the centres. Not because you’re refusing to give up your medical freedom, but you refuse to accept responsibility for your choices.

I CANNOT give up my freedoms. It’s not a matter of cooperation. It’s simply something I CANNOT do.
Please don’t confuse my freedoms with personal preference. I 100% accept the responsibility that comes with freedom.

[Sam Vara]

Well my issue is this was an approved topic for discussion, and all this chatter about the frustration of the repetition is off topic. I have yet to have an open discussion on this topic here, you all avoid it or seem afraid to engage in it.

You're right, the topic was approved for discussion. I think what people are commenting on, however, is the fact that you are using the topic for rehearsing the same unanswerable questions that you have been posting here in huge quantities for 2 years now. How would anyone here know why Goenka Vipassana Centres don't obey your rules? The fact that nobody here can answer that, and never have been able to, leads people to think that you are seeking some sort of emotional gratification from talking obsessively about it, rather than asking genuine questions. My impression is that they are not afraid of anything, but they don't like being played for fools.

If you want, I'll give you some possible answers as to why the Goenka Centres do these things, and you can pick the one you like best.

Please give the possible answers?
You know that if you have the slightest food allergy at a Vipassana centre all measures will be taken to make certain you have a variety of other option and everything will be labelled so you don’t accidentally digest something harmful. But if you have an allergy to covering your face or due to being sexually assaulted and gagged as a child nobody cares. You are ignored and cast aside.
It’s hurtful Sam.

I can well imagine how it would be hurtful.

My best guess is that the management at Vipassana Centres are fearful of being labelled as running places where diseases are spread. They have already come in for some harsh criticism about people allegedly suffering mental health issues after attending 10-day courses, and they want to know about mental health history and substance abuse in order to head this off. They are probably on the back foot and a bit disorientated and lacking leadership after Goenkaji's death 10 years ago, so their decisions are probably less than brilliant at the moment. The last thing they want is adverse publicity if someone alleges that they caught Covid on a retreat. So they play it very safe indeed. There is almost certainly no malice in what they are doing - it's often the way the managerial mind works, especially when faced with potential legal threats. There was a similar issue with the Theravadan monastery near me. It was locked down tighter, and for longer, than any other organisation I knew, and some people got angry with the abbot, but he wouldn't change his mind because of the risk that he perceived.

Please note the following:

I have no idea whether this is an accurate account of what is happening or not. It's just my best guess, so I'm not interested in debating whether it's true. Note that my "explanation" depends on the centre managers perceiving things in a certain way. Even if I am right, there is absolutely no point in discussing whether their perceptions are accurate or not.

I doubt whether anyone here has any better information. How can anyone know?

Posting reams of questions asking people to discuss it gets precisely nowhere, and alienates other posters.

Hurtful or not, you really should take on board the point made by Retro and try to drop the obsession of resistance (patigha). Expressed differently, that's exactly the same advice I would offer to people who are dealing with problems far greater than yours - things like the death of their child, or a painful terminal illness. Accept the change, acknowledge that it has brought suffering, and drop the resistance. I never thought I would be offering that advice to a sotāpanna, but there we are.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

Please with all respect, stop ordering me to “let go” things.

They're not orders - they are what are documented in the Suttas as being for your betterment, in this Dhamma. If you're not interested in that, why are you here?

This must happen naturally and with wisdom.

According to you, you are sotapanna. You'll note that unlike some, I won't quarrel with your assertion, but I will hold you to account, to that standard. The sotapanna already knows the way, hence the inevitability and certainty of arahantship. The sutta I shared will help you on your way, but if you wish to cling to your obsessions, the Sutta makes clear you are doing yourself a disservice. That choice is yours.

Let’s discuss this openly, obviously I’ve been cut deeply
And could use metta to heal the wound.

The causality of feelings should be well known to a sotapanna... that you seek external things to ameliorate your feelings shows you are looking in the wrong direction. Consult MN 1 if the Dhamma (rather than just claiming to be adept in the Dhamma) is actually of interest to you.

Native American Indians are very troubled per capita, they have survived much violence and psychological abuse over the centuries. When the crimes against them are never truly acknowledged and instead swept under the rug how can you expect them to just relinquish all the past attachment in an instant?

Again, it's not about me - it's about you. If you want to obsess over, and cling to your grievances, as a self-proclaimed sotapanna, you should know that this is the wrong way. What do you want from me, other than as a medium for which to confess that you are not practicing properly in accordance with how the Buddha says a sotapanna should practice.

Talk to me, be kind to me, show me acceptance and love and help me towards the insight that will renounce this.
The wound is still very fresh.

If your goal is amelioration of your feelings, outside the Dhamma, go and see a psychologist.
If your goal is transcendence of your feelings, within the Dhamma, what has already been said to you is apt and appropriate.

For someone who makes grand declarations about being a self-sufficient independent "man", you're being a bit of a wuss.

What would Buddha do?



Metta,
Paul.

[SDC]

I CANNOT give up my freedoms. It’s not a matter of cooperation. It’s simply something I CANNOT do.
Please don’t confuse my freedoms with personal preference. I 100% accept the responsibility that comes with freedom.

Evidently not.

It is your preference to fit the profile of a free man. It is the story you like the best. It’s what you are most fond of in your posts. But, in a situation where your body can be broken at any moment, there is no such thing as freedom. You choose to ignore this absolute truth. Next time you take a deer or a fish, just remember that you’re doing it with a terminal condition known as life. You aren’t living off the land, you’re dying on it. No matter how deep in the woods you go, you won’t outrun those crosshairs.

Having said all that, does it really make sense to keep asking the world to make you feel better about the fact that you’re incapable of compromising? That your mind being hardened in the direction of non-adjustment is actually your fault and not theirs? How unbelievably shortsighted and immature for you not to see how much of your “peace” depends on others doing their part not to make you uncomfortable. Unreal.

[thepea]

You're right, the topic was approved for discussion. I think what people are commenting on, however, is the fact that you are using the topic for rehearsing the same unanswerable questions that you have been posting here in huge quantities for 2 years now. How would anyone here know why Goenka Vipassana Centres don't obey your rules? The fact that nobody here can answer that, and never have been able to, leads people to think that you are seeking some sort of emotional gratification from talking obsessively about it, rather than asking genuine questions. My impression is that they are not afraid of anything, but they don't like being played for fools.

If you want, I'll give you some possible answers as to why the Goenka Centres do these things, and you can pick the one you like best.

Please give the possible answers?
You know that if you have the slightest food allergy at a Vipassana centre all measures will be taken to make certain you have a variety of other option and everything will be labelled so you don’t accidentally digest something harmful. But if you have an allergy to covering your face or due to being sexually assaulted and gagged as a child nobody cares. You are ignored and cast aside.
It’s hurtful Sam.

I can well imagine how it would be hurtful.

My best guess is that the management at Vipassana Centres are fearful of being labelled as running places where diseases are spread. They have already come in for some harsh criticism about people allegedly suffering mental health issues after attending 10-day courses, and they want to know about mental health history and substance abuse in order to head this off. They are probably on the back foot and a bit disorientated and lacking leadership after Goenkaji's death 10 years ago, so their decisions are probably less than brilliant at the moment. The last thing they want is adverse publicity if someone alleges that they caught Covid on a retreat. So they play it very safe indeed. There is almost certainly no malice in what they are doing - it's often the way the managerial mind works, especially when faced with potential legal threats. There was a similar issue with the Theravadan monastery near me. It was locked down tighter, and for longer, than any other organisation I knew, and some people got angry with the abbot, but he wouldn't change his mind because of the risk that he perceived.

Please note the following:

I have no idea whether this is an accurate account of what is happening or not. It's just my best guess, so I'm not interested in debating whether it's true. Note that my "explanation" depends on the centre managers perceiving things in a certain way. Even if I am right, there is absolutely no point in discussing whether their perceptions are accurate or not.

I doubt whether anyone here has any better information. How can anyone know?

Posting reams of questions asking people to discuss it gets precisely nowhere, and alienates other posters.

Hurtful or not, you really should take on board the point made by Retro and try to drop the obsession of resistance (patigha). Expressed differently, that's exactly the same advice I would offer to people who are dealing with problems far greater than yours - things like the death of their child, or a painful terminal illness. Accept the change, acknowledge that it has brought suffering, and drop the resistance. I never thought I would be offering that advice to a sotāpanna, but there we are.

Was that so hard?
Thank you for your honest opinion as to why they do what they do?
Why, can they not be open and honest to an old student?
Why when asked anything do they hang up the phone and say it’s not their decision or your talking to the wrong person. I spoke to bill and Virginia and was told “when the government drops the mandates we will drop the mandates.” Then bill and Virginia stepped down and an Indian man took their place. I called when the mandates were dropped and was told they were keeping them for awhile longer. Then I got the monthly letter which said the one day sits were resuming at the church but full health safety measures were in place. I called and asked why? I was told it’s the church’s policy and as they are guests at the church they must abide to their rules. So I called the church, they told me they dropped all health measures as soon as the government dropped them. So I called back to get an answer and was told the health measures were a requirement for the one day course, and then I was hung up on.
I appreciate your answer, I could do without the constant sotapanna bashing from you and others but if you feel you and others feel you need to make these remarks I will continue to observe them mindfully.
Again, IMO you all put the attainment of sotapanna much higher than I do. I’m not in hell or any of the lower states.
I’m hurt, and I’m sad, and I would like some honest sarcasm free answers as to why I find all actions taken to stop a flu that was never stopped or contained slightly through any health measures a complete violation of dhamma morality but others do not in the least.
I’m hearing from Buddhist meditators here that if one is unvaccinated they refuse to be near them???
This is complete madness, yet this view is completely respected, while a sexual assault survivor who cannot cover their face is ignored and trespassed.
Why?
This sotapanna cannot see any wisdom or compassion with this.

[thepea]

I CANNOT give up my freedoms. It’s not a matter of cooperation. It’s simply something I CANNOT do.
Please don’t confuse my freedoms with personal preference. I 100% accept the responsibility that comes with freedom.

Evidently not.

It is your preference to fit the profile of a free man. It is the story you like the best. It’s what you are most fond of in your posts. But, in a situation where your body can be broken at any moment, there is no such thing as freedom. You choose to ignore this absolute truth. Next time you take a deer or a fish, just remember that you’re doing it with a terminal condition known as life. You aren’t living off the land, you’re dying on it. No matter how deep in the woods you go, you won’t outrun those crosshairs.

Having said all that, does it really make sense to keep asking the world to make you feel better about the fact that you’re incapable of compromising? That your mind being hardened in the direction of non-adjustment is actually your fault and not theirs? How unbelievably shortsighted and immature for you not to see how much of your “peace” depends on others doing their part not to make you uncomfortable. Unreal.

Freedom is what we are developing in, ones constitutional rights and privileges are something else.
Am I free completely?
No I am merely a sotapanna, 25%+ free. Like I’ve mentioned I’m free from the lower states of deprivation when dealing with life but I have emotions and feelings and they get hurt and I feel sad. Do I need psychotherapy? Not at all, I am quite capable of accepting the karma that results from choosing freedom.
Submitting to the asks of a public is not a sign of freedom in my eyes. Standing for what one knows to their core as morally correct behaviour and accepting and dealing with the results of this is the core of freedom.
I cannot do some of the things you do with medical compliancy, but I can catch kill and eat a fish.
This doesn’t trouble me morally but it troubles you somewhat the idea that a nobleman could kill a fish and eat it, and it seriously troubles others here.
I don’t make up stories about the little fish going to school with his family and my hook yanking and separating their unit. I don’t get concerned about the mental state of a fish, I catch it and kill it quickly so it suffers the least possible amount. I do see the children who absolutely despise the mask wearing to the point they are in tears. And I see the foolishness of them playing sports and rolling around on the floor in gym maskless and then forced to wear these in class. This is psychological torture for many and I speak out to rid the world of that type of harm.
I’m not asking the world to make me feel better, I’m asking the world to acknowledge and respect freedom(which again is not rights and privileges).
Yes, I’m hurt by a lot of this, some kindness and metta would be welcomed, but it’s not a necessity as I am capable of carrying on without it.
I can give you metta also in many ways I can see the goodness in your heart, but I cannot comply with immoral health regulations that harm a vast number of the population. They go against freedom and are therefore harmful.

[SDC]

I’m not asking the world to make me feel better, I’m asking the world to acknowledge and respect freedom(which again is not rights and privileges).
Yes, I’m hurt by a lot of this, some kindness and metta would be welcomed, but it’s not a necessity as I am capable of carrying on without it.
I can give you metta also in many ways I can see the goodness in your heart, but I cannot comply with immoral health regulations that harm a vast number of the population. They go against freedom and are therefore harmful.

As much as you may be hurt, I’m sure many are exhausted by you as well. I don’t think you have any quantification of what it is like to deal with someone as emotionally needy and demanding as yourself. It is truly like watching my 9 year old child demanding to know why she was denied computer time on a Sunday when she knows there is no computer time on the weekends ever. Just full on panic.

I do my very best to hold you accountable for what you do when you are here. Disregarding the theme of the forum. Disrespectful to the values that are venerated in the Theravada tradition. Dismissive of the texts that are the cornerstone of what this forum is intended to be about. And the list goes on. You demand a seat at the table but have not a care in the world why anyone else chose to sit there in the first place. Is this how you behave at these centres? Do you show up everywhere with the intention to demand you get everything you want and not have to hear a word of criticism from those who are actually making an effort to compromise?

You are exhausting, dude. I’m sure you suck the space out of any room you walk into with your neediness, but blame everyone else for not having shown up with the energy to donate to the endurance of your presence.

I apologize for taking the short jabs at you over the years trying to get you to recognize this about yourself when I should have probably just said it to outright. And I don’t know how many other ways to tell you. You ask for so much energy from others. Others who may actually want that energy to dedicate to their own well-being, you turn on the vacuum and take it from whoever doesn’t bottle up fast enough. And I’m sure you truly are hurt when everyone shut down around you and gives nothing. But they probably do it because if they don’t put up some defenses, you may take everything they stored up for that day.

If I am wrong, I apologize, but it really sounds like that is the situation you’ve fashioned for yourself. On one hand I really wish the staff would stop allowing you to continue this onslaught of off-themed nonsense, but on the other hand, at least you can have a glimmer of a chance to take a hard look at what you are asking of those around you.

This is a tough community on DW. We’ve been hoodwinked and lied to by hundreds of “accounts”. There has to be some defensiveness when it comes to what members are allowed to carry on about. Maybe that doesn’t mean much to you, but those of us who have worked hard to keep this place together actually really value the potential of this community. So, at least try to understand why many here have to put their guard up around you.

[thepea]

Greetings,

Please with all respect, stop ordering me to “let go” things.

They're not orders - they are what are documented in the Suttas as being for your betterment, in this Dhamma. If you're not interested in that, why are you here?

This must happen naturally and with wisdom.

According to you, you are sotapanna. You'll note that unlike some, I won't quarrel with your assertion, but I will hold you to account, to that standard. The sotapanna already knows the way, hence the inevitability and certainty of arahantship. The sutta I shared will help you on your way, but if you wish to cling to your obsessions, the Sutta makes clear you are doing yourself a disservice. That choice is yours.

Let’s discuss this openly, obviously I’ve been cut deeply
And could use metta to heal the wound.

The causality of feelings should be well known to a sotapanna... that you seek external things to ameliorate your feelings shows you are looking in the wrong direction. Consult MN 1 if the Dhamma (rather than just claiming to be adept in the Dhamma) is actually of interest to you.

Native American Indians are very troubled per capita, they have survived much violence and psychological abuse over the centuries. When the crimes against them are never truly acknowledged and instead swept under the rug how can you expect them to just relinquish all the past attachment in an instant?

Again, it's not about me - it's about you. If you want to obsess over, and cling to your grievances, as a self-proclaimed sotapanna, you should know that this is the wrong way. What do you want from me, other than as a medium for which to confess that you are not practicing properly in accordance with how the Buddha says a sotapanna should practice.

Talk to me, be kind to me, show me acceptance and love and help me towards the insight that will renounce this.
The wound is still very fresh.

If your goal is amelioration of your feelings, outside the Dhamma, go and see a psychologist.
If your goal is transcendence of your feelings, within the Dhamma, what has already been said to you is apt and appropriate.

For someone who makes grand declarations about being a self-sufficient independent "man", you're being a bit of a wuss.

What would Buddha do?



Metta,
Paul.

Your speech often comes off as authoritarian, a do this or else. I’m here to develop my freedom of expression until it’s perfected.

Yes, you do not participate in the sotapanna ridicule. And yes I’m a sotapanna and know the path, the morality required for the arising of insight. This is why I speak to immoral medical tyranny as it is not dhamma related.

I’ve take the oath of strong determination, immoral medical tyranny will not take root in my garden. I will sacrifice a few lifetimes but this “new normal” and “the science” will be eradicated.

My goal is to ensure the dhamma remains pure.

By wuss do you mean:
1.a weak or ineffectual person (often used as a general term of abuse).
Or
2. fail to do or complete something as a result of fear or lack of confidence.

If 1. Then this is a violation of your tos.
If 2. Then you are talking to one who has eradicated the states of deprivation. There is confidence and a morality free from sin.

[thepea]

I’m not asking the world to make me feel better, I’m asking the world to acknowledge and respect freedom(which again is not rights and privileges).
Yes, I’m hurt by a lot of this, some kindness and metta would be welcomed, but it’s not a necessity as I am capable of carrying on without it.
I can give you metta also in many ways I can see the goodness in your heart, but I cannot comply with immoral health regulations that harm a vast number of the population. They go against freedom and are therefore harmful.

As much as you may be hurt, I’m sure many are exhausted by you as well. I don’t think you have any quantification of what it is like to deal with someone as emotionally needy and demanding as yourself. It is truly like watching my 9 year old child demanding to know why she was denied computer time on a Sunday when she knows there is no computer time on the weekends ever. Just full on panic.

I do my very best to hold you accountable for what you do when you are here. Disregarding the theme of the forum. Disrespectful to the values that are venerated in the Theravada tradition. Dismissive of the texts that are the cornerstone of what this forum is intended to be about. And the list goes on. You demand a seat at the table but have not a care in the world why anyone else chose to sit there in the first place. Is this how you behave at these centres? Do you show up everywhere with the intention to demand you get everything you want and not have to hear a word of criticism from those who are actually making an effort to compromise?

You are exhausting, dude. I’m sure you suck the space out of any room you walk into with your neediness, but blame everyone else for not having shown up with the energy to donate to the endurance of your presence.

I apologize for taking the short jabs at you over the years trying to get you to recognize this about yourself when I should have probably just said it to outright. And I don’t know how many other ways to tell you. You ask for so much energy from others. Others who may actually want that energy to dedicate to their own well-being, you turn on the vacuum and take it from whoever doesn’t bottle up fast enough. And I’m sure you truly are hurt when everyone shut down around you and gives nothing. But they probably do it because if they don’t put up some defenses, you may take everything they stored up for that day.

If I am wrong, I apologize, but it really sounds like that is the situation you’ve fashioned for yourself. On one hand I really wish the staff would stop allowing you to continue this onslaught of off-themed nonsense, but on the other hand, at least you can have a glimmer of a chance to take a hard look at what you are asking of those around you.

This is a tough community on DW. We’ve been hoodwinked and lied to by hundreds of “accounts”. There has to be some defensiveness when it comes to what members are allowed to carry on about. Maybe that doesn’t mean much to you, but those of us who have worked hard to keep this place together actually really value the potential of this community. So, at least try to understand why many here have to put their guard up around you.

Please comprehend SDC, I mean to destroy anything immoral. Medical tyranny is immoral it harms people on ways you are and many here are oblivious to.
I don’t care what any of you have built here, if it’s immoral or spouts immoral harm I aim to tear it apart.
If you try to take the teachings and coral it as Buddhism, I will tear your house down.
I’m a noble moral man and that’s all you need to know.

[SDC]

Please comprehend SDC, I mean to destroy anything immoral. Medical tyranny is immoral it harms people on ways you are and many here are oblivious to.
I don’t care what any of you have built here, if it’s immoral or spouts immoral harm I aim to tear it apart.
If you try to take the teachings and coral it as Buddhism, I will tear your house down.
I’m a noble moral man and that’s all you need to know.

Finally got you to show a few more of your cards! This is progress!

[thepea]

Please comprehend SDC, I mean to destroy anything immoral. Medical tyranny is immoral it harms people on ways you are and many here are oblivious to.
I don’t care what any of you have built here, if it’s immoral or spouts immoral harm I aim to tear it apart.
If you try to take the teachings and coral it as Buddhism, I will tear your house down.
I’m a noble moral man and that’s all you need to know.

Finally got you to show a few more of your cards! This is progress!

I’ve never hidden this SDC.
How about you drop your egotistical view that I am wrong and simply respond to the OP?
You are playing a game of avoiding the issue by claiming I’m a mess. Stop avoiding the topic and let’s get into this.
Why do you support vaccine mandates, masking and a corporations right to violate ones freedom of bodily autonomy?
Are you afraid of the responsibility of freedom?

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

Stop avoiding the topic and let’s get into this.
Why do you support vaccine mandates, masking and a corporations right to violate ones freedom of bodily autonomy?
Are you afraid of the responsibility of freedom?

This is irrelevant to the topic, and not the grounds upon which the topic was allowed.

It's on you to prove you're serious about the topic you created, not on SDC to answer off-forum questions better suited to Twitter.



Metta,
Paul.

[SarathW]

I would like to discuss the responsibility of meditation communities both formal monastics and lay organizations, on their adoption of regulation which segregate those who cannot follow them.
Is this in alignment with Buddha dhamma to segregate a portion(even if small) from equality of participation?
If a monastic(taken robes) cannot comply have these individuals been asked to leave?
Can/were(I would like to look at any adopted policy in past as well as current) new monastics refused entry to ordain due to inability to comply with said policies?
I’d like to look at the monastery/dhamma centres role/responsibilities to follow any laws of the land and secondary acts/orders/mandates etc.. and the possibility of the brick and mortar infrastructure itself being used to leverage/coerce the adoption of new health policies?
There is a number of global sangha members who through no fault of their own have been cast aside or quietly swept under the rug and are no longer allowed to participate within organizations they have helped to erect?
Is this simply annicca and part of the erosion of the buddha dhamma? Or is this segregation a vinyana breach?
I have heard the argument a business can have a dress code for entry or that people have the right to choose who they invite to their establishment, I’m also aware of free society anti segregation laws which prohibit the exclusion of those with medical disabilities. Business open to general public must make accommodation not to exclude, it’s part of public zoning laws.
Can society declare every member as guilty of being dangerous loaded gun capable of going off at any moment and force them to disarm themselves through various health mandates or does innocent until proven guilty still stand?
Thoughts?

Hi Thepea
I am sorry for you but I have already add you to my foe list some time back.
Not because I don't like you but your post are so useless to me as a person who tries to learn true Buddhist teaching.
Even the topic heading does not match your question because you do not understand the meaning of Schism.
Perhaps you have to learn what is schism first.
Your answers should match with Sutta or the generally accepted views.
You also should support your post with references.
We are not interested reading your personal views unless you post them as personal experience.

Perhaps posters like you entertain us sometimes but when it becomes regular you seem like a troll.

I got banned from tow forums too. So do not have any hard feelings.
You attain Nibbana yourself but not with others.
So just flow the path but do not waste others time.