On Your Way Home - Whole Book

[PeterC86]

The issue being your "nibbāna" isn't what the Buddha taught, and most of us here are at least interested in that.

If Nibbana is what you think the Buddha taught, you would already be there.

[Ceisiwr]

The issue being your "nibbāna" isn't what the Buddha taught, and most of us here are at least interested in that.

If Nibbana is what you think the Buddha taught, you would already be there.

Sorry, I don't follow?

[PeterC86]

The issue being your "nibbāna" isn't what the Buddha taught, and most of us here are at least interested in that.

If Nibbana is what you think the Buddha taught, you would already be there.

Sorry, I don't follow?

When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

[Sam Vara]

There's an Anglican association of atheists called, ironically, the "Sea of Faith."

It's named after Don Cupitt's book, which in turn took its title from Matthew Arnold's lines in Dover Beach:

The Sea of Faith
Was once, too, at the full, and round earth’s shore
Lay like the folds of a bright girdle furled.
But now I only hear
Its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar,
Retreating, to the breath
Of the night-wind, down the vast edges drear
And naked shingles of the world.

[Ceisiwr]

If Nibbana is what you think the Buddha taught, you would already be there.

Sorry, I don't follow?

When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

You should write fortune cookies.

[DNS]

Sorry, I don't follow?

When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

You should write fortune cookies.

[SteRo]

Preface

This book approaches the Buddha’s teachings from a Western mind that thinks logically. It is a guide that enables the reader to attain nirvāna.

It seems that "a Western mind that thinks logically" would not accept that "nirvāna" as taught by buddhist religion exists on the basis of hearsay or religious texts. So it seems that first you would have to provide evidence of "nirvāna".

[Spiny Norman]

Sorry, I don't follow?

When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

You should write fortune cookies.

[PeterC86]

Preface

This book approaches the Buddha’s teachings from a Western mind that thinks logically. It is a guide that enables the reader to attain nirvāna.

It seems that "a Western mind that thinks logically" would not accept that "nirvāna" as taught by buddhist religion exists on the basis of hearsay or religious texts. So it seems that first you would have to provide evidence of "nirvāna".

That is what the book is for yes, to find that evidence for oneself. And since nibbana/nirvana is merely a concept referring to an experience, this evidence is to be found in one's experience.

[PeterC86]

It would be nice if people read beyond the preface before posting here, so that we don't need to discuss what the preface might or might not have to provide or imply based on a frame of mind of someone who hasn't read the book.

[Joe.c]

So nirvāna can be attained from two sides. One side is the realization of nothingness, by fully realizing the nature of being; dependent origination. Through this realization, you realize that there is no coming and going. This way is called liberation through the intellect, or 'paññāvimutti' in Pāli. Paññā is the base, and refers to the intellect, the cognitive side of consciousness; the faculty of thinking. Ignorance is the cause of misunderstanding or confusion in the intellect.ix Through realizing dependent origination, ignorance is dissolved, because one realizes that nothing can ultimately be known.

This is fake news. Panna Vimutti is not through nothingness. Panna Vimutti doesn't even need Ayana Samadhi.

And what person is freed by wisdom?

It’s a person who does not have direct meditative experience of the peaceful liberations that are formless, transcending form. Nevertheless, having seen with wisdom, their defilements have come to an end.

---

The other side is liberation of the mind, or 'cetovimutti', by becoming aware of the state that is 'neither perception nor non-perception'. Citta is the base, and refers to the emotional mind, the affective side of consciousness; the faculty of grasping. Grasping is the cause of dissatisfaction in the mind, through the desire to grasp.x By getting to the state of 'neither perception nor non-perception', this desire is abandoned, because there is no perception to grasp.

This is another fake news as well. Ceto Vimutti has not finished the job yet. But one needs Ubhatobhāgavimutto (freed both way - free by mind and wisdom). This can only be done through getting into SannaVedayitaNirodha, not nevasaññānāsaññāyatana. SannaVedayitaNirodha is one step higher than nevasaññānāsaññāyatana.

And what person is freed both ways?

It’s a person who has direct meditative experience of the peaceful liberations that are formless, transcending form. And, having seen with wisdom, their defilements have come to an end.

[PeterC86]

So nirvāna can be attained from two sides. One side is the realization of nothingness, by fully realizing the nature of being; dependent origination. Through this realization, you realize that there is no coming and going. This way is called liberation through the intellect, or 'paññāvimutti' in Pāli. Paññā is the base, and refers to the intellect, the cognitive side of consciousness; the faculty of thinking. Ignorance is the cause of misunderstanding or confusion in the intellect.ix Through realizing dependent origination, ignorance is dissolved, because one realizes that nothing can ultimately be known.

This is fake news.

Hi Joe,

The explanations in the book stand on their own. Which is to say that in the book I deviated in some instances from how certain things are written in the suttas, on purpose, for the sake of an easier understanding. I will explain to you how this is the case for the points you raised, and in the future I will elaborate this for the other instances in the book here, for those who read the book and the suttas at the same time.

Panna Vimutti is not through nothingness. Panna Vimutti doesn't even need Ayana Samadhi.

And what person is freed by wisdom?

It’s a person who does not have direct meditative experience of the peaceful liberations that are formless, transcending form. Nevertheless, having seen with wisdom, their defilements have come to an end.

This passage explains that the person who attains paññāvimutti/o (liberation through intellect/wisdom) first, doesn't have cetovimutti (liberation through grasping/mind). Notice that in the sutta, it is not explained that someone can be liberated by mind, without having attained paññāvimutti. Instead, it is explained that the person liberated through wisdom, doesn't have work to do with diligence; "They’ve done their work with diligence. They’re incapable of being negligent." Whereas in all other six examples of the seven people, they have work to do with diligence.

The other side is liberation of the mind, or 'cetovimutti', by becoming aware of the state that is 'neither perception nor non-perception'. Citta is the base, and refers to the emotional mind, the affective side of consciousness; the faculty of grasping. Grasping is the cause of dissatisfaction in the mind, through the desire to grasp.x By getting to the state of 'neither perception nor non-perception', this desire is abandoned, because there is no perception to grasp.

This is another fake news as well. Ceto Vimutti has not finished the job yet. But one needs Ubhatobhāgavimutto (freed both way - free by mind and wisdom).

Notice that your quote from the book comes after the passage about paññāvimutti, hence, in order to attain cetovimutti, one needs to be liberated through wisdom first. So when one has attained cetovimutti, one has already attained paññāvimutti, and is therefore ubhatobhāgavimutto (liberated in both ways).

This can only be done through getting into SannaVedayitaNirodha, not nevasaññānāsaññāyatana. SannaVedayitaNirodha is one step higher than nevasaññānāsaññāyatana.

With the transcending of nevasaññānāsaññāyatana, one enters saññā­ve­dayi­ta­nirodhaṃ and is liberated in both ways (see AN 9.45). So no explanation is needed, and therefore I have not written about it in the book.

Warm regards,
Peter