frank k wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:52 am
The attainment where the Buddha can't hear sounds is an arupa attainment, not the four jhanas.
it's just, like your opinion, man. The sutta doesn't name it. Ekkagata factor alone implays, that rupa jhanas go like in this sutta, as singular experience, mind data only.
As far as i know, "pleasant aboding" is a phrase, which often appears in suttas. Does it it refer to arupas? Were arupas Buddhas's daily practice" I've laways thought it was anpana leadinbg to jhanas ( first 4).
Thing is, we won't know for sure. Some, like yourself, may seek answers in the deep sutta analys. And some, like me, may believe, that the details of meditation practice, such as seeing kaya as "heap" not your own flesh, are practical interpretations, derived from personal experiences. And that's why such - body as heap, no sense data in the rupa jhanas, except of the mind door - is the official postition of Theravada, not some radical, extreme take on it. Thausends of monks gathered during early councils, and together they've decided, that's how it works, folks.
That's what suttas are saying. It was not a brahminic conspiracy, mnemonic mistake, Vidssudhimagga's twisting of doctrine, nor the Brahm's and Sujato's evil masterplan. It was consensus of bhikhus, accomplished meditators and ascetics, who lived more close to Buddha in time and space, than us. And we are just a bunch of distracted modern boys, addicted to our screens nad constant stimulus, who maybe did a few retreats in their life. It takes some balls to think, that we know better than the bhikhus of old, becouse we have pali suttas available online, lol!
Btw, I don't think that labeling jhanas as 1, 2,3 4, or arupa, is that important. The important, crucial thing is, what degree of samadhi is sufficient in order to, purify the mind attain insight. Thus I say to Alex123, if you stick with jhana light camp, you possibly won't reach it. If you go a hard jhana way, you can still have your body scan, energy rushes and tickles in the body,
plus the real deal.
It's unpopular oppinion here, but teacher's guidance, sincere meditation and personal experience may clear this confusion for you, while extensive reading and word squezing alone, will for sure only deepen the vicikicchā.