Anyone know a good chatumadhura recipe?

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KeepCalm
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Anyone know a good chatumadhura recipe?

Post by KeepCalm »

Hi, Namo Buddhaya.. Namo Dhamaya Namo Sanghaya!

Does anyone know a good recipe for chatumadhura that is totally 100% in line with vinaya/rules etc. for all 'traditions'..?

The recipe that I know of has salted butter in it..

Please let me know if u have any ideas on the subject.

Mind how you go..

KeepCalm
justindesilva
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Re: Anyone know a good chatumadhura recipe?

Post by justindesilva »

KeepCalm wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:55 pm Hi, Namo Buddhaya.. Namo Dhamaya Namo Sanghaya!

Does anyone know a good recipe for chatumadhura that is totally 100% in line with vinaya/rules etc. for all 'traditions'..?

The recipe that I know of has salted butter in it..

Please let me know if u have any ideas on the subject.

Mind how you go..

KeepCalm
Salted butter 125 gms
Palm juggery 250 ,gms
Bee honey One oz
Cow ghee one oz
Cow ghee
Slize palm juggery and mix with butter pn very mild warmed butter , mix with ghee and bres honey ,
Taste the paste .
Seen on a magazine
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KeepCalm
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Re: Anyone know a good chatumadhura recipe?

Post by KeepCalm »

Thanks but..

Salted Butter is not allowable, no?

I am looking for a universal recipe all can agree on..
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Mumfie
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Re: Anyone know a good chatumadhura recipe?

Post by Mumfie »

KeepCalm wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:52 pm I am looking for a universal recipe all can agree on..
Then you're looking for something that doesn't exist. As I explained to you in the thread you started back in November, one of the ingredients of catumadhura is navanīta and there's no consensus on what this is. One solution, I suppose, would be to use only three ingredients (i.e., leave the navanīta out) and call it timadhura.
“Hobgoblin, nor foul fiend,
Shall daunt his spirit;”
John Bunyan, Pilgrim’s Progress II)
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KeepCalm
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Re: Anyone know a good chatumadhura recipe?

Post by KeepCalm »

Mumfie wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 5:26 pm
KeepCalm wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:52 pm I am looking for a universal recipe all can agree on..
Then you're looking for something that doesn't exist. As I explained to you in the thread you started back in November, one of the ingredients of catumadhura is navanīta and there's no consensus on what this is. One solution, I suppose, would be to use only three ingredients (i.e., leave the navanīta out) and call it timadhura.
I guess thats one solution.

OK perhaps I worded that badly. Not something all can agree on perhaps, perhaps that is unrealistic but perhaps if another ingredient could be substituted that was allowable and at least some people think may be navita + bonus points if it tastes OK (and fills the gap).

What do you think it could be? What do others think it could be?

Lets be friends, lets not argue :anjali:
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Mumfie
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Re: Anyone know a good chatumadhura recipe?

Post by Mumfie »

KeepCalm wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:07 pm What do you think it could be?
Either cheese or salted butter or some curd-like dairy product, depending on whether you're offering it to an Amaravati monk, a Mahamevnawa monk or a monk following the latest rising star in the firmament of possibilities.

Or oil. The allowability of oil in the vikāla is completely uncontroversial, though it wouldn't of course be navanīta.
“Hobgoblin, nor foul fiend,
Shall daunt his spirit;”
John Bunyan, Pilgrim’s Progress II)
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Mumfie
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Re: Anyone know a good chatumadhura recipe?

Post by Mumfie »

Your link presents the Hindu and Jain views on navanīta. This is Ajahn Thanissaro presenting the Buddhist (or rather, *a* Buddhist) view on the matter (translating navanīta as "fresh butter"):
Fresh butter must be made from the milk of any animal whose flesh is allowable. None of the Vinaya texts go into detail on how fresh butter is made, but MN 126 describes the process as “having sprinkled curds in a pot, one twirls them with a churn.” Fresh butter of this sort is still made in India today by taking a small churn--looking like an orange with alternate sections removed, attached to a small stick--and twirling it in curds, all the while sprinkling them with water. The fresh butter--mostly milk fat--coagulates on the churn, and when the fresh butter is removed, what is left in the pot is diluted buttermilk. Fresh butter, unlike creamery butter made by churning cream, may be stored unrefrigerated in bottles for several days even in the heat of India without going rancid.

Arguing by the Great Standards, creamery butter would obviously come under fresh butter here.

A more controversial topic is cheese. In Mv.VI.34.21, the Buddha allows bhikkhus to consume five products of the cow: milk, curds, buttermilk, fresh butter, and ghee. [NOTE] Apparently, cheese – curds heated to evaporate their liquid content and then cured with or without mold-was unknown in those days, but there seems every reason, using the Great Standards, to include it under one of the five. The question is which one. Some have argued that it should come under fresh butter, but the argument for classifying it under curds seems stronger, as it is closer to curds in composition and is generally regarded as more of a substantial food. Different Communities, however, have differing opinions on this matter.
(Buddhist Monastic Code I)
NOTE: By "allows" Thanissaro here means "allows in general", not "allows after midday".

So going by this account, if a community regards cheese as coming under fresh butter, then they would deem it allowable during the vikāla, but if they regard it as coming under curds, then would deem it allowable only before midday. And so there's a difference of opinion here even among those who agree with Thanissaro that navanīta means fresh butter.

But not everyone does agree. Thanissaro's claim that cheese was unknown in ancient India is not uncontroversial, for there are several competing theories about the origin and antiquity of paneer and chhena. Some communities hold that navanīta is in fact cheese and that it's fresh butter that's only allowable in the morning. So that makes three opinions. Then there's the fourth opinion (not held by any community that I know of, but by certain individual bhikkhus whose Vinaya research has led them to this conclusion) that navanīta is neither butter nor cheese, but some other kind of curdled or fermented dairy product.
“Hobgoblin, nor foul fiend,
Shall daunt his spirit;”
John Bunyan, Pilgrim’s Progress II)
wenjaforever
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Re: Anyone know a good chatumadhura recipe?

Post by wenjaforever »

Sorry what is this food and how is it eaten? I'm not very familiar with Indian food. Is it a type of sweet or candy? Or do you use it to top bread like Nutella? How is it relevant to Buddhism? Was it the food of kings or devas? Thank you very much.
money is worthless toilet paper • the tongue has no bone (a person might say one thing but it cannot be further from the truth) • you cannot teach a goat math as in you cannot teach the dhamma to a dumb person
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KeepCalm
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Re: Anyone know a good chatumadhura recipe?

Post by KeepCalm »

It's allowable food (after the sun has reached its mid-day zenith) that I believe Buddha's and Arahants eat (sparingly) to remove the pains of hunger and feelings of weakness etc. Sometimes just half a tee spoon full is enough to ward of any pains etc - its so rich..

Also some Monks/Nuns use it too.. and people on 8 / 10 precepts on Poya days.

I think its considered kind of a sacred food. Its not the done thing in those cultures to just make some and chow down on it as a snack whilst watching T.V. or something,,

:anjali:
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KeepCalm
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Re: Anyone know a good chatumadhura recipe?

Post by KeepCalm »

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