Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?
Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?
We have all heard this said, I think. Somehow becoming a monk prevents an arahat from soon dying. How does that happen?
Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?
No one will die before the kamma vipaka is exhausted especially the sensual realm one.
This statement only can be found from commentary that don't understand how the teaching works.
So many example in Sutta, a householder who is very smart but remain a non returner as long as they are a householder.
Just look at Citta (SN 41) who has 30 years plus of householder life after attaining samma samadhi. Very smart indeed.
This statement only can be found from commentary that don't understand how the teaching works.
So many example in Sutta, a householder who is very smart but remain a non returner as long as they are a householder.
Just look at Citta (SN 41) who has 30 years plus of householder life after attaining samma samadhi. Very smart indeed.
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Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?
We've had several topics on this. Here's one of them:
viewtopic.php?t=4285
I'm sure there are several others too.
From that thread:
The Milindapanha mentions by implication that lay people can attain full enlightenment:
"If a layman attains arahant-ship, only two destinations await him; either he must enter the Order that very day or else he must attain parinibbàna"
Milindapanha III.19
"You say that if a layman attains arahantship he must either enter the Order that very day or die and attainparinibbàna. Yet if he is unable to find a robe and bowl and preceptor then that exalted condition of arahantship is a waste, for destruction of life is involved in it."
"The fault does not lie with arahantship but with the state of a layman, because it is too weak to support arahantship. Just as, O king, although food protects the life of beings it will take away the life of one whose digestion is weak; so too, if a layman attains arahantship he must, because of the weakness of that condition, enter the Order that very day or die."
viewtopic.php?t=4285
I'm sure there are several others too.
From that thread:
The Milindapanha mentions by implication that lay people can attain full enlightenment:
"If a layman attains arahant-ship, only two destinations await him; either he must enter the Order that very day or else he must attain parinibbàna"
Milindapanha III.19
"You say that if a layman attains arahantship he must either enter the Order that very day or die and attainparinibbàna. Yet if he is unable to find a robe and bowl and preceptor then that exalted condition of arahantship is a waste, for destruction of life is involved in it."
"The fault does not lie with arahantship but with the state of a layman, because it is too weak to support arahantship. Just as, O king, although food protects the life of beings it will take away the life of one whose digestion is weak; so too, if a layman attains arahantship he must, because of the weakness of that condition, enter the Order that very day or die."
Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?
Milinda panha is NOT from Buddha.
Actually if one get into an arahant especially one who is freed both way with psychic power, they can extend their life easily with samma samadhi.
Problem is whether they want or not. Even A Buddha can extend his life 1 aeon (not only 120 human years per commentary, it is >32 billion human years), but he chose not too.
Why would one want to extend your suffering any longer, if one has understood ALL.
Actually if one get into an arahant especially one who is freed both way with psychic power, they can extend their life easily with samma samadhi.
Problem is whether they want or not. Even A Buddha can extend his life 1 aeon (not only 120 human years per commentary, it is >32 billion human years), but he chose not too.
Why would one want to extend your suffering any longer, if one has understood ALL.
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Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?
"No! Please don't kill me, my Extinguished karma! One day I shall promise to join the order! No, I don't want to die, I just have no finances to become a monk! Please give me some more time! I still have much to teach the Saha World! There is so much I can teach lay followers like me who have taken refuge in the Three Jewels!" Screams the newly coronated Arhat in Arhatship, something he was looking forward to his entire life.
"No! You must die and leave your body today!" Retorts the looming Force of Parinirvana...
The future Monk will never become a Monk as the light is Extinguished in his eyes, as sad onlookers look on in fear as to what this Buddhism thing was all about all this time...
Does this seem like a plausible scenario?
"No! You must die and leave your body today!" Retorts the looming Force of Parinirvana...
The future Monk will never become a Monk as the light is Extinguished in his eyes, as sad onlookers look on in fear as to what this Buddhism thing was all about all this time...
Does this seem like a plausible scenario?
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.
-Dhammapada.
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.
-Dhammapada.
Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?
Isn’t that a characteristic of the arahant, all kamma vipaka exhausted, no regression no rebirth? If that is so, what would be the point of becoming a monk. Does an arahant monk have a useful function that can’t be fulfilled by an arahant layperson?
Last edited by [james] on Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?
Thanks, I’ll look through it.DNS wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:46 am We've had several topics on this. Here's one of them:
viewtopic.php?t=4285
Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?
Well it does seem a bit odd. According to your scenario. Why would the end of karma’s narrative require death of the layperson and not the monk?
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Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?
They won’t be able to look after themselves.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?
they are more capable while in stupor?
just sleep walking through life
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Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?
Greetings,
Metta,
Paul.
Lol. Daniel Ingram redefined arahant to suit himself. He's no arahant. Or, is it [current year] and we can identify however we want now, thepea?
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."