Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?

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[james]
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Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?

Post by [james] »

We have all heard this said, I think. Somehow becoming a monk prevents an arahat from soon dying. How does that happen?
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Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?

Post by Joe.c »

No one will die before the kamma vipaka is exhausted especially the sensual realm one.

This statement only can be found from commentary that don't understand how the teaching works.

So many example in Sutta, a householder who is very smart but remain a non returner as long as they are a householder.

Just look at Citta (SN 41) who has 30 years plus of householder life after attaining samma samadhi. Very smart indeed.
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Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?

Post by DNS »

We've had several topics on this. Here's one of them:
viewtopic.php?t=4285

I'm sure there are several others too.

From that thread:

The Milindapanha mentions by implication that lay people can attain full enlightenment:

"If a layman attains arahant-ship, only two destinations await him; either he must enter the Order that very day or else he must attain parinibbàna"

Milindapanha III.19

"You say that if a layman attains arahantship he must either enter the Order that very day or die and attainparinibbàna. Yet if he is unable to find a robe and bowl and preceptor then that exalted condition of arahantship is a waste, for destruction of life is involved in it."

"The fault does not lie with arahantship but with the state of a layman, because it is too weak to support arahantship. Just as, O king, although food protects the life of beings it will take away the life of one whose digestion is weak; so too, if a layman attains arahantship he must, because of the weakness of that condition, enter the Order that very day or die."
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Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?

Post by Joe.c »

Milinda panha is NOT from Buddha.

Actually if one get into an arahant especially one who is freed both way with psychic power, they can extend their life easily with samma samadhi.

Problem is whether they want or not. Even A Buddha can extend his life 1 aeon (not only 120 human years per commentary, it is >32 billion human years), but he chose not too.

Why would one want to extend your suffering any longer, if one has understood ALL. 😅
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Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?

Post by Mahabrahma »

"No! Please don't kill me, my Extinguished karma! One day I shall promise to join the order! No, I don't want to die, I just have no finances to become a monk! Please give me some more time! I still have much to teach the Saha World! There is so much I can teach lay followers like me who have taken refuge in the Three Jewels!" Screams the newly coronated Arhat in Arhatship, something he was looking forward to his entire life.

"No! You must die and leave your body today!" Retorts the looming Force of Parinirvana...

The future Monk will never become a Monk as the light is Extinguished in his eyes, as sad onlookers look on in fear as to what this Buddhism thing was all about all this time...

Does this seem like a plausible scenario?
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[james]
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Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?

Post by [james] »

Joe.c wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:45 am No one will die before the kamma vipaka is exhausted especially the sensual realm one.
Isn’t that a characteristic of the arahant, all kamma vipaka exhausted, no regression no rebirth? If that is so, what would be the point of becoming a monk. Does an arahant monk have a useful function that can’t be fulfilled by an arahant layperson?
Last edited by [james] on Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?

Post by [james] »

DNS wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:46 am We've had several topics on this. Here's one of them:
viewtopic.php?t=4285
Thanks, I’ll look through it.
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Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?

Post by [james] »

Joe.c wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:20 am Why would one want to extend your suffering any longer, if one has understood ALL. 😅
Because having understood ALL, there is no longer any suffering … ? And so, to my question, having understood ALL, why be a monk rather than a layperson.
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Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?

Post by [james] »

Mahabrahma wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:41 am Does this seem like a plausible scenario?
Well it does seem a bit odd. According to your scenario. Why would the end of karma’s narrative require death of the layperson and not the monk?
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Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?

Post by cappuccino »

Joe.c wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:20 am Milinda panha is NOT from Buddha.
:goodpost:
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Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?

Post by Ceisiwr »

[james] wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:34 am We have all heard this said, I think. Somehow becoming a monk prevents an arahat from soon dying. How does that happen?
They won’t be able to look after themselves.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?

Post by cappuccino »

Ceisiwr wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:36 pm They won’t be able to look after themselves.
they are more capable while in stupor?


just sleep walking through life
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Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?

Post by thepea »

[james] wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:34 am We have all heard this said, I think. Somehow becoming a monk prevents an arahat from soon dying. How does that happen?
Daniel Ingram is an arahant, and he is a layman with a job.
More religious mumbo jumbo to give importance to a religious tradition.
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Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?

Post by cappuccino »

thepea wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:50 pm Daniel Ingram is an arahant,
No he’s not
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Re: Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
thepea wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:50 pm
[james] wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:34 am We have all heard this said, I think. Somehow becoming a monk prevents an arahat from soon dying. How does that happen?
Daniel Ingram is an arahant, and he is a layman with a job.
More religious mumbo jumbo to give importance to a religious tradition.
Lol. Daniel Ingram redefined arahant to suit himself. He's no arahant. Or, is it [current year] and we can identify however we want now, thepea? 🤔

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