Why must an arahant join the monkhood or die?

[santa100]

Don't think an Arhat or a Buddha is bereft of knowledge on how to handle the complex Saha World which they have overcome. They make the best Teachers, Presidents, Police Officers, and army Generals...

"They make the best Teachers", like Dhamma Teachers? Yes, Absolutely.
"... the best Presidents"? No.
"... the best Police Officers"? No.
"... the best army Generals"? HELL NO.

[DNS]

And what if he doesn't? And what if someone unworthy of the position does?

That's why generals will not be arahants.

[cappuccino]

[Mahabrahma]

Does anywhere in the Theravada does it say that certain precepts have to be not followed under certain circumstances, and certain things have to be done in order to save many lives? Or have the Bhikkhus signed on to a Path where they expect unskilled and dangerous people to run everything except the monk population, to their eventual demise?

[DNS]

Does anywhere in the Theravada does it say that certain precepts have to be not followed under certain circumstances, and certain things have to be done in order to save many lives?

No. What you are referring to is the skillful means of Mahayana. See the story of 'Captain Compassionate' of Mahayana (no such teaching in Theravada).

"Apparently, headman, I haven't been able to get past you by saying, 'Enough, headman, put that aside. Don't ask me that.' So I will simply answer you. When a warrior strives & exerts himself in battle, his mind is already seized, debased, & misdirected by the thought: 'May these beings be struck down or slaughtered or annihilated or destroyed. May they not exist.' If others then strike him down & slay him while he is thus striving & exerting himself in battle, then with the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in the hell called the realm of those slain in battle.
SN 42.3

Captain Compassionate story, see: viewtopic.php?p=528106#p528106

[Joe.c]

No one will die before the kamma vipaka is exhausted especially the sensual realm one.

Isn’t that a characteristic of the arahant, all kamma vipaka exhausted, no regression no rebirth? If that is so, what would be the point of becoming a monk. Does an arahant monk have a useful function that can’t be fulfilled by an arahant layperson?

Not exhausted yet. Past kamma needs to play it course. Wisdom will never regress, no birth because job is done.

Also Buddha asked the Arahant to teach IF POSSIBLE.

Layperson can’t never be an arahant, there is always a householder status that prevent it. But non returner is possible.

Because having understood ALL, there is no longer any suffering … ? And so, to my question, having understood ALL, why be a monk rather than a layperson.

A monk, so no need any family duties. Family is a source of dukkhas. Imagine you still need to work, but you have understood all your work is worthless in the end. Your money, family, house will left behind when the body is death. 6 senses are just a trap.

Also, It is cleaner, purer and easier to keep precepts, samadhi, etc.

Also can liberate others easily, also chance for others to generate good vipaka for them. Because an ariya can purify the donation. Very very beneficial for givers if they haven’t perfected precepts.

Anyway difficult to understand the True Arahant for regular person. More fake arahant can be found nowadays.

[Mahabrahma]

Being a Buddha or an Arhat is not part of a caste system. Buddha didn't believe in the modern degenerated castes of India as being fair to each other. Arhats and Buddhas can by far be householders. Heck if they choose to be born again in a new body they can be babies too. Are you going to tell a baby to join the monastic order? Don't delude yourself.

[Joe.c]

There is above example about an arahant by the poster above. That is the most silly example for an arahant. Totally doesn’t understand who an arahant is.

Btw, A true arahant will not involve in worldly things/affair ever. A true arahant also will not be that stupid to have someone saw off their limbs.

[Joe.c]

Being a Buddha or an Arhat is not part of a caste system. Buddha didn't believe in the modern degenerated castes of India as being fair to each other. Arhats and Buddhas can by far be householders. Heck if they choose to be born again in a new body they can be babies too. Are you going to tell a baby to join the monastic order? Don't delude yourself.

That is not an arahant. Why do they want to be born again to suffer? Only an ignorance person/unawaken one want to get another birth and it is just a BIG FOOL.

Another birth, start from a baby, learn how to talk, cry, then go to school, get a job, got scolded by your family or boss, didn’t get what you want. In the end left all of it with death of body. These are just dukkhas.

Even to breath is too suffer for an arahant.

[Mahabrahma]

You'd have no Buddhism if every Buddha and Arhat left this world completely after one birth. What is the Bodhisattva Vow? Give respect due to those who deserve it, who have been labouring for many lifetimes for your well-being. And should they not? Does becoming an Arhat or Buddha make one more selfish? Does it turn them into a coward? The idea that you must escape this world in any way you can is not the purpose of any kind of Buddhism. You can go to the first Heaven right now without any attainment if you are truly sincere, a Deva could take you. Don't look for a quick entrance into Nirvana, but live a meaningful life of helping others.

[DNS]

Being a Buddha or an Arhat is not part of a caste system. Buddha didn't believe in the modern degenerated castes of India as being fair to each other. Arhats and Buddhas can by far be householders. Heck if they choose to be born again in a new body they can be babies too. Are you going to tell a baby to join the monastic order? Don't delude yourself.

No one said arahant is part of a caste system. One attains the state of arahantship through their efforts, not by birth.

The ideas you are bringing up in this thread are all Mahayana. That is fine, if you are a Mahayanist, but there is nothing Theravada or Dhamma about the ideas you are bringing to this thread.

[Mahabrahma]

Well I am just going by my rationale. But I understand what you are saying. Thank you.

[Joe.c]

You'd have no Buddhism if every Buddha and Arhat left this world completely after one birth. What is the Bodhisattva Vow? Give respect due to those who deserve it, who have been labouring for many lifetimes for your well-being. And should they not? Does becoming an Arhat or Buddha make one more selfish? Does it turn them into a coward? The idea that you must escape this world in any way you can is not the purpose of any kind of Buddhism. You can go to the first Heaven right now without any attainment if you are truly sincere, a Deva could take you. Don't look for a quick entrance into Nirvana, but live a meaningful life of helping others.

Don’t get me started with another FOOL idea about the VOW. Only stupid person will trust that.

Me included in the past. but i gave up all those silly idea.

Arahant is not selfish. One who fully understood can’t be selfish. If you ever find an arahant, please stay as close and as long as possible. It is for your benefit, even a sight of them is so serene and peaceful.

Also don’t only think one can become an arahant in single life, some may need couple life. It start from hearing true dhamma first.

Also, One can’t teach others when one is still blind. Arahant has perfect vision, they can bring any wise one who want to be freed just with 1 single verse.

Also, Nobody can take you to heaven, you need to do the job yourself here and now. If you want to go to heaven, need to perfected precepts like the heaven being NOW. Can’t wait till die to know.

[Mahabrahma]

Do you not believe in the descriptions of your own Spiritual Tradition, are you a secular Buddhist? In the sense that there are no Devas that can help or protect you, and take you to higher realms? Do you believe you can ride the waves of karma on a karma surfboard to be taken to a higher place?

[Joe.c]

Do you not believe in the descriptions of your own Spiritual Tradition, are you a secular Buddhist? In the sense that there are no Devas that can help or protect you, and take you to higher realms? Do you believe you can ride the waves of karma on a karma surfboard to be taken to a higher place?

Deva can't help you if you don't act like them. Actually Deva repel by one who hasn't perfected precepts or practice to perfected precepts. Human body is like a PIG or Sh*t for deva.

Deva only come when you are like them. They will stay close to you if you have perfected precepts like them. Even you can't see them, they will help you.

What waves of kamma if one doesn't do the job. There is only waves to hell, if one hasn't taken the precepts seriously.