Help me understand the idea of Nirvana/ or the ultimate goal of the path

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Awaycup
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Help me understand the idea of Nirvana/ or the ultimate goal of the path

Post by Awaycup »

Hi, im not really a beginner to Buddhism, but to Therevada more so. I guess it depends on how you define beginner. I have some knowledge and a few years of meditation practice experience.

I have a few thoughts i would love to have some input on perhaps by you who have practiced this path for a few years and have some good knowledge of the Dhamma.

The goal of Therevada is to not be born again, to stop the cycle of birth and death, rather than be reborn until everyone have reached enlightenment as in mahayana, correct?

A Therevada monastic practice with this aspiration, and share the teachings so that others can also get out of the cycle of birth of death, right?

Doesnt that mean that the goal is that there should be no more life at all, to put out all the "flames" (candle simmilie) so to speak, right?

So the thought comes to mind, is buddhism a religion of elimination of existence and living beings? That thought seems so contradictory to ideas of cherishing life and living beings, finding peace and happiness within this life.. but still, the goal is to have no life.

If that is the goal, and hypothetically the goal would be reached or completed, there would be no more living beings left in the cosmos?
Im thinking, that cant be the goal that there should be a cosmos without living beings in it at all, because birth and death is suffering?

ive heard alot of beautiful talks on that the human rebirth is precious, because we have the opportunity to practice and reach enlightenment. That the god realms dont have suffering thus cant attain enlightenment.

But again then, If the goal were to be reached, this would mean no more beings in the cosmos, including the higher realms?

Im sorry if i am repeating my point. Any input would be apreciated. Did the buddha say anything on this, about what would be if everyone got out of the cycle of birth and death.

I love buddhism and it gives me alot of purpouse in life and i aspire to practice and what i want out of it is to understand suffering.
concluding out of these thoughts, i ask myself, is buddhism an "anti life" (for lack of a better way of saying it) path in the end?

Thanks,
Best, Elis
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Sam Vara
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Re: Help me understand the idea of Nirvana/ or the ultimate goal of the path

Post by Sam Vara »

Welcome to Dhamma Wheel, Awaycup. :anjali:
SarathW
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Re: Help me understand the idea of Nirvana/ or the ultimate goal of the path

Post by SarathW »

Awaycup wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:57 am Hi, im not really a beginner to Buddhism, but to Therevada more so. I guess it depends on how you define beginner. I have some knowledge and a few years of meditation practice experience.

I have a few thoughts i would love to have some input on perhaps by you who have practiced this path for a few years and have some good knowledge of the Dhamma.

The goal of Therevada is to not be born again, to stop the cycle of birth and death, rather than be reborn until everyone have reached enlightenment as in mahayana, correct? yes

A Therevada monastic practice with this aspiration, and share the teachings so that others can also get out of the cycle of birth of death, right?yes

Doesnt that mean that the goal is that there should be no more life at all, to put out all the "flames" (candle simmilie) so to speak, right? Lay person think like that but Arahant will not think like that

So the thought comes to mind, is buddhism a religion of elimination of existence and living beings? That thought seems so contradictory to ideas of cherishing life and living beings, finding peace and happiness within this life.. but still, the goal is to have no life.What you see as happiness the Arahant see as Dukkha

If that is the goal, and hypothetically the goal would be reached or completed, there would be no more living beings left in the cosmos? Buddha did not answer this question. This is a layman's question with the self view
Im thinking, that cant be the goal that there should be a cosmos without living beings in it at all, because birth and death is suffering?Theravda goal is personal liberation not all in the universe

ive heard alot of beautiful talks on that the human rebirth is precious, because we have the opportunity to practice and reach enlightenment. That the god realms dont have suffering thus cant attain enlightenment.According to Buddhis al 31 planes of existence are suffering including Brahama worlds

But again then, If the goal were to be reached, this would mean no more beings in the cosmos, including the higher realms?Again this is a question of a lay person with self view

Im sorry if i am repeating my point. Any input would be apreciated. Did the buddha say anything on this, about what would be if everyone got out of the cycle of birth and death.I repeat that your question is a typical laymans question. Arahant will not ask a question like this :D

I love buddhism and it gives me alot of purpouse in life and i aspire to practice and what i want out of it is to understand suffering.
concluding out of these thoughts, i ask myself, is buddhism an "anti life" (for lack of a better way of saying it) path in the end?Actually Buddhis is a full of comapassion to all living beings unconditinally

Thanks,
Best, Elis
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
santa100
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Re: Help me understand the idea of Nirvana/ or the ultimate goal of the path

Post by santa100 »

Awaycup wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:57 am ...
#1. The goal of Therevada is to not be born again, to stop the cycle of birth and death, rather than be reborn until everyone have reached enlightenment as in mahayana, correct?
Correct on the first part. On the Mahayana part, notice there're A LOT of different sects under this umbrella, and not all of them share that same notion of "be reborn until everyone have reached enlightenment";

#2. A Therevada monastic practice with this aspiration, and share the teachings so that others can also get out of the cycle of birth of death, right?
Correct;

#3. Doesnt that mean that the goal is that there should be no more life at all, to put out all the "flames" (candle simmilie) so to speak, right?
A bit of a nuance here, the goal is to end Dukkha by attaining Nibbana where there're many different benefits: healthy body and mind, serenity in the here-and-now, etc. and yes, no more rebirths after the current one;

#4. So the thought comes to mind, is buddhism a religion of elimination of existence and living beings? That thought seems so contradictory to ideas of cherishing life and living beings, finding peace and happiness within this life.. but still, the goal is to have no life.
As answered in #3, the goal is to end Dukkha, a subtle difference to "to have no life". Different people will have different goals and perspectives on the what, when, and how to end Dukkha. Some come to Buddhism just to find peace and happiness in this immediate life, others seek a happy and fortunate rebirth in the higher heavens, and only a special minority have the heart and determination to "go all the way" to attain the highest goal. And Buddhism benefit them all regardless of capabilities or capacities, sort of like the rain, when it falls down, all trees, plants, animals, and humans benefit regardless of their shapes, sizes, and preferences;

#5. If that is the goal, and hypothetically the goal would be reached or completed, there would be no more living beings left in the cosmos?
Im thinking, that cant be the goal that there should be a cosmos without living beings in it at all, because birth and death is suffering?
If you look back at all the historical Buddhas, together with Gautama Buddha, there're 29 all together. They must've helped an unimaginably vast number of beings attaining Nibbana, but still, look at us now, humans are still here. So I don't think the cosmos will be empty of living beings any time soon. Powerful as they are, but the fact is Buddhas can only help those who are willing and ready to be helped!

#6. ive heard alot of beautiful talks on that the human rebirth is precious, because we have the opportunity to practice and reach enlightenment. That the god realms dont have suffering thus cant attain enlightenment.
But again then, If the goal were to be reached, this would mean no more beings in the cosmos, including the higher realms?
See answer to #5. above;

#7. Im sorry if i am repeating my point. Any input would be apreciated. Did the buddha say anything on this, about what would be if everyone got out of the cycle of birth and death.
See answer to #5. above;

#8. I love buddhism and it gives me alot of purpouse in life and i aspire to practice and what i want out of it is to understand suffering.
concluding out of these thoughts, i ask myself, is buddhism an "anti life" (for lack of a better way of saying it) path in the end?
See answer to #4. above;
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mjaviem
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Re: Help me understand the idea of Nirvana/ or the ultimate goal of the path

Post by mjaviem »

Awaycup wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:57 am ...
Doesnt that mean that the goal is that there should be no more life at all, to put out all the "flames" (candle simmilie) so to speak, right?
...
No, that's the conclusion of not understanding birth nor the cycle of births.
Awaycup wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:57 am ...
So the thought comes to mind, is buddhism a religion of elimination of existence and living beings? ...
No, the only thing that gets eliminated is ignorance (and so a chain of wrongness disappears with it).
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammā Sambuddhassa
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zerotime
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Re: Help me understand the idea of Nirvana/ or the ultimate goal of the path

Post by zerotime »

Awaycup wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:57 am So the thought comes to mind, is buddhism a religion of elimination of existence and living beings? That thought seems so contradictory to ideas of cherishing life and living beings, finding peace and happiness within this life.. but still, the goal is to have no life.
[..]
I love buddhism and it gives me alot of purpouse in life and i aspire to practice and what i want out of it is to understand suffering.
concluding out of these thoughts, i ask myself, is buddhism an "anti life" (for lack of a better way of saying it) path in the end?
note how you are imagining some type of container (universe or whatever) in where the beings can be exhausted. However, according Buddhism the arising of beings cannot be exhausted. There are many worlds and realms of existence. And even imagining that our imagined Universe-container will collapse with all its beings, then at that time other Universe will arise according Buddha.

"To not being born" because nibbana doesn't mean disappearing or reappearing in some place. Neither it is a heaven, a darkness, a nothingness or whatever mind-image to go. Nibbana is an ambit of the cease of a delusion that we experience all the time. With the cease of that delusion, we cannot say if there is existence or not. According the people who have realized that experience, there is only supreme happiness and freedom and the end of death and any suffering.

According Buddha, this ambit is impossible to imagine or conceive for the reason, only for the experience. This is not a heaven to come or to go but a superior ambit to whatever thing we can conceive. (And this is logical when we think in the final cease of a delusion). According Buddha and many other people through the times, the nibbana can be realized here to experience its nature. Therefore, this is more similar to an awakening from a big dream, available while one is alive.

The human life is very pretty, still more if we remember those magnitudes, the endless rebirths including suffering in less or more degree, and the very strange opportunities to be in contact with a way to be free from that.

So if you feel attraction for this Path that's a very good thing. :smile:
Last edited by zerotime on Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
TRobinson465
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Re: Help me understand the idea of Nirvana/ or the ultimate goal of the path

Post by TRobinson465 »

The first noble truth is birth, aging, sickness and death are suffering. you cant live without suffering. So the goal is to end suffering by reaching the state of nibbana, which is the ultimate happiness and is permanent. The Buddha didnt say anythign about what would happen if all beings enlightened and attained nibbana, but that would be a good thing because than nobody is suffering anymore. Think of samsara as a prison, nibbana is freedom from the prison. no more birth, no more sickness, no more puberty, no more aging, no more seeing your loved ones die.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

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2600htz
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Re: Help me understand the idea of Nirvana/ or the ultimate goal of the path

Post by 2600htz »

Hi:

Its a tricky answer, so i understand the need for that question.

Nibbana is the end of a CONDITIONED BECOMING. You are right stating that a person attaining nibbana (actually parinibanna) will not be REBORN anywhere in the cosmos as a being subject to birth and death (of conditionded states).

But you are wrong stating nibanna is the end of life. That WAS NOT stated by the Buddha. To be clear, nibbana it is neither defined as a god like eternal life outside this cosmos, or the end of everything.
Its just the unconditioned, there is no concept to speak about it, besides knowing there is no arising of conditioned states.

Regards.
Awaycup
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Re: Help me understand the idea of Nirvana/ or the ultimate goal of the path

Post by Awaycup »

zerotime wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:56 pm
Awaycup wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:57 am So the thought comes to mind, is buddhism a religion of elimination of existence and living beings? That thought seems so contradictory to ideas of cherishing life and living beings, finding peace and happiness within this life.. but still, the goal is to have no life.
[..]
I love buddhism and it gives me alot of purpouse in life and i aspire to practice and what i want out of it is to understand suffering.
concluding out of these thoughts, i ask myself, is buddhism an "anti life" (for lack of a better way of saying it) path in the end?
note how you are imagining some type of container (universe or whatever) in where the beings can be exhausted. However, according Buddhism the arising of beings cannot be exhausted. There are many worlds and realms of existence. And even imagining that our imagined Universe-container will collapse with all its beings, then at that time other Universe will arise according Buddha.

"To not being born" because nibbana doesn't mean disappearing or reappearing in some place. Neither it is a heaven, a darkness, a nothingness or whatever mind-image to go. Nibbana is an ambit of the cease of a delusion that we experience all the time. With the cease of that delusion, we cannot say if there is existence or not. According the people who have realized that experience, there is only supreme happiness and freedom and the end of death and any suffering.

According Buddha, this ambit is impossible to imagine or conceive for the reason, only for the experience. This is not a heaven to come or to go but a superior ambit to whatever thing we can conceive. (And this is logical when we think in the final cease of a delusion). According Buddha and many other people through the times, the nibbana can be realized here to experience its nature. Therefore, this is more similar to an awakening from a big dream, available while one is alive.

The human life is very pretty, still more if we remember those magnitudes, the endless rebirths including suffering in less or more degree, and the very strange opportunities to be in contact with a way to be free from that.

So if you feel attraction for this Path that's a very good thing. :smile:
Hi, thank you for the response. I will read it again i felt there was good. I guess i wanted to put it up to something, negating some nihilistic assumptions or something like that.
Awaycup
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Re: Help me understand the idea of Nirvana/ or the ultimate goal of the path

Post by Awaycup »

2600htz wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 1:04 am Hi:

Its a tricky answer, so i understand the need for that question.

Nibbana is the end of a CONDITIONED BECOMING. You are right stating that a person attaining nibbana (actually parinibanna) will not be REBORN anywhere in the cosmos as a being subject to birth and death (of conditionded states).

But you are wrong stating nibanna is the end of life. That WAS NOT stated by the Buddha. To be clear, nibbana it is neither defined as a god like eternal life outside this cosmos, or the end of everything.
Its just the unconditioned, there is no concept to speak about it, besides knowing there is no arising of conditioned states.

Regards.
Yes its tricky that way, cause im just playing with assumptions from my limited understanding of it, as well. I feel uplifted from this online forum. thank you!
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Noble Sangha
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Re: Help me understand the idea of Nirvana/ or the ultimate goal of the path

Post by Noble Sangha »

Awaycup wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:57 am
The goal of Therevada is to not be born again, to stop the cycle of birth and death, rather than be reborn until everyone have reached enlightenment as in mahayana, correct?
Yes that’s correct. Some of the learning materials that I learn from and something for your consideration.

https://puredhamma.net/historical-backg ... teachings/
A Therevada monastic practice with this aspiration, and share the teachings so that others can also get out of the cycle of birth of death, right?
One doesn’t necessary need to be in a monastic setting / environment to attain a “guaranteed” progression / path to Nibbana.
Doesnt that mean that the goal is that there should be no more life at all, to put out all the "flames" (candle simmilie) so to speak, right?

But again then, If the goal were to be reached, this would mean no more beings in the cosmos, including the higher realms?

If that is the goal, and hypothetically the goal would be reached or completed, there would be no more living beings left in the cosmos?
Im thinking, that cant be the goal that there should be a cosmos without living beings in it at all,
Think of the concept “infinity”. Once again something for your consideration.

https://puredhamma.net/dhamma/samsaric- ... t=infinity

https://puredhamma.net/dhamma-and-scien ... big-is-it/

https://puredhamma.net/dhamma-and-philo ... t=infinity
Did the buddha say anything on this, about what would be if everyone got out of the cycle of birth and death.
If you are open to the idea / understanding of what was presented about “infinity”, you’ll see / understand that there is no such thing as “everyone” gets out of the cycle of birth and death.
because birth and death is suffering?
For "suffering", depending on what "suffering" we're talking about, at times “dukkha ariyasacca” or the “noble truth of suffering might be more appropriate to be used. As well "suffering" or dukkha ariyasacca is more than just birth and death, this is a very deep topic / subject / understanding. It’s highly possible that there are Buddhist practitioners that’s been practicing 10 plus years including in monastic settings / environments and still haven’t understood what dukkha ariyasacca is or the noble truth of suffering, even during the time of the Buddha.

I’m going to copy and paste a post from a discussion thread of one of the forum participants that I feel can help you or anyone to start or augment one’s current understanding of what “suffering” is based on the Buddha dhamma or the Dukkha ariyasacca.

viewtopic.php?t=44154&sid=15993feb402cc ... &start=150

"The following is a general statement, not direct to anyone in particular.

The main issue is not understanding what "suffering" is, per Buddha Dhamma.

Each person may have their opinion on the definition of suffering. But this forum is on Buddhism (the teachings of the Buddha), so if we are interested in his solution to "suffering," where his definition of "suffering" applies. We must first understand what he meant by "suffering."

The following short sutta should give the basic idea:

Dukkha Sutta (SN 12.43): https://suttacentral.net/sn12.43/en/suj ... latin#5.11

At the marker 5.11 (where I pointed to) : "When rebirth ceases, old age and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress cease."

- Per the Buddha, that is how the suffering ends by stopping rebirth because each rebirth ends in death!

Now, this sutta gives only an outline of the Buddha's teachings on HOW TO get there. It says the root cause for future rebirths is the attachment to sensory inputs (and doing immoral things for sense gratification). The latter (bolded) part is not described because it is a long explanation involving Paticca Samuppada.

1. If you don't believe in rebirth, you are on a different topic than Buddhism. You should participate in a philosophy forum.
- But one could learn about the rationality for rebirth stated by the Buddha in many other suttas and try to understand that logic.
- However, arguing deep suttas on "suffering" based on one's idea of getting rid of "pains and aches" (experienced in this life) is not very productive for anyone.

I would be interested in hearing the definition of "suffering" by those who say it is not about suffering in the rebirth process. However, we must remain focused on Buddha's teachings. Otherwise, as explained in #1 above, it is a philosophical discussion.

- Buddha's teachings are in the Tipitaka, just as teachings on Christianity and Islam are in the Bible and Koran, respectively. That is why we rely on the Tipitaka to understand Buddha's teachings.

ive heard alot of beautiful talks on that the human rebirth is precious, because we have the opportunity to practice and reach enlightenment.
It is precious especially when the Buddha sasana is present / available during a certain time period. As well, human birth is precious really only because like you mentioned, the opportunity to practice and reach enlightenment. Other than that, it’s not really precious.

I believe it would be beneficial for you or others to be exposed to / be aware of these sutta’s.

https://suttacentral.net/sn56.48/en/suj ... ript=latin

If you want to read more, you can look into these two additional sutta’s.

https://suttacentral.net/sn20.2/en/suja ... ript=latin

https://suttacentral.net/sn15.3/pli/ms? ... ript=latin
That the god realms dont have suffering thus cant attain enlightenment.

That is not true. It would take some explanation / teachings to explain this. Maybe someone on here can explain / teach this to you at this time, but to me, I don't believe it's the appropriate time for me to explain / teach this to you.

I hope you don't blindly believe what I and other's say / mentions, but hopefully you can discern / see for yourself at a later time to see if what I just stated / mentioned is true or not.
i ask myself, is buddhism an "anti life" (for lack of a better way of saying it) path in the end?
I sincerely hope whatever’s mentioned on here by myself and others can help to answer your questions that you may have in regards to “Theravada Buddhism” and hopefully help you to come to your own conclusions and understanding.

As well to give you some "ideas about nibbana", "some" of the descriptions of nibbana described / taught by the Buddha are:

- "the ending of all future dukkha"

- "complete absence of dukkha"

- "rāgakkhaya", "dōsakkhaya", "mōhakkhaya"

- "Etan santan, etan panitan, yadidan sabbasankharasamatho sabbupadhipaninissaggo tanhakkhayo virago nirodho nibbanan"

This might help.

https://puredhamma.net/key-dhamma-conce ... ht=nibbana

I sincerely wish you and all of us living beings all the best with our practice and may we all attain the supreme bliss of nibbana.
I am a Buddhist that doesn't practice Buddhism. What I practice is nekkhamma, abyāpāda, avihiṁsā, viraga, nirodha or the Noble Eight Fold Path. The elimination / eradication / extermination of defilements, kilesa's, raga, dosa, moha and asava's.

Lineage: Buddha > Sthaviravada > Vibhajjavada > Theravada > Striving for Nibbana.
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Re: Help me understand the idea of Nirvana/ or the ultimate goal of the path

Post by Ceisiwr »

Awaycup wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:57 am Doesnt that mean that the goal is that there should be no more life at all, to put out all the "flames" (candle simmilie) so to speak, right?

So the thought comes to mind, is buddhism a religion of elimination of existence and living beings? That thought seems so contradictory to ideas of cherishing life and living beings, finding peace and happiness within this life.. but still, the goal is to have no life.

If that is the goal, and hypothetically the goal would be reached or completed, there would be no more living beings left in the cosmos?
Im thinking, that cant be the goal that there should be a cosmos without living beings in it at all, because birth and death is suffering?
In Buddadhamma anything which is dependently originated is dukkha. Life, existence itself, is dependently originated. The path is for the ending of all dukkha, including life and existence, but it's not the ending of the existence of a being. It's simply the total cessation of a stream of conditioned dhammas. On coming to nibbāna, all ignorance and craving is undone. One then lives totally free from all emotions, whilst alive, and then, at death, all of conditioned life comes to end forever since the cord of being has been cut. What is left is total nibbāna, which is beyond conception, for we can only think in terms of the conditioned.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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confusedlayman
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Re: Help me understand the idea of Nirvana/ or the ultimate goal of the path

Post by confusedlayman »

Aim to enter parinibbana after death. End of all experience..
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Awaycup
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Re: Help me understand the idea of Nirvana/ or the ultimate goal of the path

Post by Awaycup »

Noble Sangha wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 4:04 pm
Awaycup wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:57 am
The goal of Therevada is to not be born again, to stop the cycle of birth and death, rather than be reborn until everyone have reached enlightenment as in mahayana, correct?
Yes that’s correct. Some of the learning materials that I learn from and something for your consideration.

...
Thank you
Last edited by retrofuturist on Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Verbatim quote edited
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Noble Sangha
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Re: Help me understand the idea of Nirvana/ or the ultimate goal of the path

Post by Noble Sangha »

Awaycup wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:32 am
Thank you
I sincerely wish for whatever is mentioned to you by anyone here on DW can help you in any way on the path.

I would like to clarify / augment on some of the things in my previous that I mentioned to you.

I mentioned: "human birth is precious really only because like you mentioned, the opportunity to practice and reach enlightenment. Other than that, it’s not really precious."

Adding to: all of existence in samsara is not really precious, including existence in the heavenly realms. Before others misunderstands me that I'm some pessimistic / depressed person and why I would mention what I just did, I would rate my current life a 9/10 with a rating of 10 being the best human life one could live. This rating is based on health, relationship, occupation and finances. Even living a "good" human life, I would still say something like this.

But from my understanding / view / opinion, human birth is the most precious out of all the existences, especially when the Buddha sasana is available in the certain time period.

I mentioned: 3 sutta's for you to look into.

Adding to: what 2 out of the 3 sutta's show is the rarity of attaining a human birth. The other sutta gives an example of the amount of tears one has shed and how long one has been in samsara for.

I mentioned: about suffering, dukkha ariyasacca (noble truth of suffering).

Adding to: The central / main teaching of the Buddha is based on something called the "Four Noble Truths". I recently came across a simple introduction on the Four Noble Truths that anyone can easily understand and be of benefit. I'll C&P here for your consideration.

[Start]

Problem-solving can be reduced to four simple steps. That is the same approach the Buddha used in discovering the Four Noble Truths to solve the problem of suffering.

Four Steps to Solving a Problem

1. When solving any problem, there are four steps:

One needs to know the problem or even realize there is a problem.
- The reason or the cause for that problem (some may be superficial causes, but there are root causes).
- Knowing what result can be expected by solving the problem (there may be many possible outcomes depending on the approach).
- A procedure to systematically solve the problem based on the superficial or root causes.
- Those were the exact steps that our Bodhisatta used to attain Buddhahood.

Figuring Out the Causes

2. Let us discuss an example. If a car would not start, the cause may not be apparent to someone who does not have a technical background in automobiles, but a qualified technician will be able to find the cause quickly.

He may find that it is a simple problem of some wires becoming loose in the ignition circuit, or it could be as bad as a problem with the engine itself.
The solution to the problem will lead to being able to start the car.

And the way to get there depends on the actual problem and going through the standard procedures to solve the problem. One could re-connect the loose wires if the problem is with a loose wire. If it is a failed engine, one could either replace the engine or fix it if it is a minor problem with the engine.

Root Causes and Secondary Causes

3. Sometimes, there can be a temporary or a permanent solution.

If we get a headache, In most cases, we take an aspirin or Tylenol, which would “fix it.” But if the headache keeps returning, we may realize there could be a more serious root cause. Now we need to figure out why we are getting headaches frequently. First, we look at easy solutions. For example, if we can connect the timing of the headaches to eating some specific food, we can stop eating that and see whether it goes away.
If we cannot figure it out, and if the problem persists, we go to a specialist, in this case, a physician. The physician will ask a series of questions and may do a series of tests. The goal is to figure out the root cause that may not be obvious.

Depending on the results of the diagnostic tests, the physician may find the root cause to be cancer. Then that cancer needs to be treated, etc. He will prescribe a method of treatment. If that root cause is removed, we would have removed recurring headaches.

4. There is an essential difference between superficial causes and root causes. Superficial causes do not lead to severe problems. For example, if too many drinks taken by a person not used to alcohol causes a headache, which can be ‘fixed” by taking an aspirin. But some problems have root causes that are hard to see, like the one in #3 above.

It is interesting to note that root causes give the exact meaning of the Pāli term “mūlika hetu“; “mula” is the root of a tree. Even if a tree is cut down, the tree may not be killed if the roots remain intact. It may still sprout new limbs and finally grow into a full-fledged tree.
However, removing the deep roots of a tree will permanently kill the tree. Similarly, removing root causes will eradicate a persisting problem.

Not Prudent to Apply Temporary Solutions

5. Most times, when a problem arises, we tend to do the most expedient thing to get it out of the way and move on. If the headache goes away until one gets through the day, one may take an aspirin and handle it daily like that.

Even when the wife (or husband) says, “You have been taking aspirins almost every day for this many days. Why don’t you see a doctor and see whether there is something else going on?” we may continue with the “temporary fix” especially if we are busy.

If that person was starting to develop cancer, postponing the “root cause” diagnosis could be a grave mistake. Cancer cells multiply rapidly and could spread to other body parts.

Even though one could get temporary relief by taking aspirin daily (may be by gradually increasing the dose, too), that is NOT the solution. The result in the short term could be temporary relief, but one is heading into a much more dangerous outcome. The ideal solution to the problem is not to temporarily be free from the headache but to be free from cancer!

Suffering Associated with the Existence

6. The Four Noble Truths handle the most critical problem of all: the suffering associated with existence.

First, most of us are unaware that temporary solutions cannot handle it. For example, even if we don’t suffer significantly in this life, there will be suffering in future lives. Some people do not realize that there is a rebirth process and that most rebirths are filled with unimaginable suffering. They are unaware that the problem is much more than just suffering in this life.

7. In complex situations, the root causes of a given problem will not be evident if one does not have a sufficiently broad view of the situation. That means the ideal solution may not be obvious.

When that happens, the problem leads to ever-increasing severity and may not be solvable. Therefore, postponing finding the root causes of a problem can be dangerous.

In the example discussed in #3 above, cancer may grow if one keeps postponing getting a good diagnosis by a qualified physician. It will be too late when cancer has spread through the body. Thus, after some point, cancer may not be treatable.

In the same way, our ability to grasp the profound teachings of the Buddha will decrease as we get old and our brains start deteriorating. Don’t postpone this most critical task of learning Buddha Dhamma!

The Solution to the Existence of Suffering Requires a Wider Worldview

8. That more significant problem of existence can be “seen” only by the highly-purified mind of a Buddha. During the night of Enlightenment, the Buddha achieved three types of higher knowledge:

1. Ability to recall one’s past lives (pubbe nivāsānussati ñāṇa),
2. The ability to see any living being’s cuti (end of bhava) and patisandhi (grasping of new bhava). This is the cutūpapāta ñāṇa.
3. The attainment of the Buddhahood with āsavakkhaya ñāṇa. That involved grasping the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path to Nibbāna.

Therefore, his worldview of a wider world with 31 realms and rebirth is NOT speculation. He could recall past lives, and he visited many other realms. Many suttas in the Tipiṭaka describe those recollections and visits.

Of course, we have to believe that based on faith. Yet, that should not be blind faith. Focusing on This Life Yield Only Temporary Solutions

9. Of course, one can find temporary solutions by fixing superficial causes. Just like fixing a headache by taking an aspirin, one could find temporary happiness in this life by “trouble-shooting” each problem as it arises. That is the “rat race” most of us are engaged in.

For example, most of our time is spent solving problems that pop up at the office or at home. At the office, one is assigned a task to finish within a specific time. When finished, one gets another. That goes on until retirement! It is not that different at home. One must take care of the kids, house, cars, etc.

At the end of this life, another WILL start. Then we do it all over again. There is no permanent solution to this short-sighted approach.
But it could be much worse when future birth is in an apāya. That is when one will be helpless. The only way to avoid that possibility is to get to at least the Sotāpanna Anugāmi stage of Nibbāna.

Only One Permanent Solution

10. Tackling superficial causes that we can readily see or discern is what we have been doing since the beginning-less time. Life after life, we strive to “maintain things to our satisfaction,” and EACH time, we fail.

Most times, we suffer trying to “get things going in the way we want,” and by the time we achieve at least some success, our bodies start falling apart, so we will not be enjoying what we have gained with so much effort.

Think carefully about any famous personality we believe has achieved their life goals. They all will have to leave behind their achievements at death. Furthermore, those things would not mean anything in their new life; they will have to start all over. The only things carried over to the new life are any good/bad habits or deeds they cultivated, not material gains.

Root Causes of Saṁsāric Suffering

11. If we understand where this never-ending process gets the required fuel from (i.e., the root cause for rebirths), then by ELIMINATING those causes, we can permanently solve the problem of perpetual suffering in the rebirth process.

As long as we crave “mind-pleasing things” in this world by generating abhisaṅkhāra, rebirth (jāti) is inevitable. Depending on the type of abhisaṅkhāra, rebirth may be in an apāya, human, Deva, or Brahma realm. But they all end up in old age and death (maraṇa.)

It is critical to realize that six root causes maintain this world for anyone: greed, hate, ignorance, and mundane versions of non-greed, non-hate, and non-ignorance. It is relatively easy to see how greed, hate, and ignorance can lead to rebirth in the apāyās.

It is impossible to understand how mundane versions of non-greed, non-hate, and non-ignorance can be destructive until those “bad roots” of greed, hate, and ignorance are removed. An understanding of Paṭicca Samuppāda is necessary to see the “hidden suffering” in apparently harmless sensory pleasures.

Thus, stated succinctly, the root cause of our suffering is not being able to “see” the hidden suffering in sensory pleasures. Not understanding that is avijjā or ignorance.

Removal of the Root Causes

12. The third step is to see that the successful solution to this problem is the attainment of Nibbāna or stopping the rebirth process. This is probably the hardest step to latch on to because it requires eliminating the root of cravings (attachments.)

We can see that “mind-pleasing things” bring us happiness. It is not easy to “see” the suffering hidden in that.
The Buddha likened this to the case of an ox dragging a fully-loaded cart eagerly while its owner is holding a stack of hay on a pole in front of it. The ox has its mind set on reaching the stack of hay and does not even realize the heavy load it is pulling.

A fish can see only the tasty worm but not the dangerous hook hidden inside. We are not that different from the fish, as the Buddha explained in the “Baḷisa Sutta (SN 17.2).” It is only when one truly comprehends that “it is fruitless to struggle to find happiness in this world of 31 realms” that one attains the Sotāpanna stage.

Thus, cravings for worldly things can ONLY be removed via wisdom (paññā) when one can accept the broader worldview discovered by the Buddha (rebirth process) and how abhisaṅkhāra (generated with avijjā) leads to rebirths in various realms, i.e., understanding Paṭicca Samuppāda/Tilakkhana. That understanding leads to the Sotapanna stage. It is a change in one’s worldview!

Following the Path to Remove Future Suffering

13. The Buddha said that when one sees one Noble Truth, one sees all four. Thus at the attainment of the Sotāpanna stage, the way to Nibbāna also becomes apparent.

The way of removing the root causes of avijjā and taṇhā is the Fourth Noble Truth, the magga sacca, or the Truth of the Path, where “magga” is a path. And this path is eightfold, and it is the Noble Eightfold Path. The Path has to be followed systematically. The first step is to realize the “correct vision” or Sammā Diṭṭhi to eliminate “san.” A Sotāpanna has achieved this to a significant extent by comprehending anicca, dukkha, and anatta to a certain extent.

The Four-Step Process Is Universal

14. Therefore, the four-step process stated in #1 above is a fundamental principle that can solve any problem. That means solving a mundane problem temporarily and providing a permanent solution to the ultimate problem of existence. That approach is based on the principle of cause and effect, the same one that Nature is based on.

One could find a longer-term solution by working towards a better rebirth. We must do that too, but always the goal MUST BE to remove all root causes.

First Step – Understanding the Existence of the Problem

15. The critical point that the Buddha was trying to make was that we do not realize that there is a “problem of existence.” The first step in the four-step process is to realize the validity of the rebirth process. Since we cannot readily see the rebirth process, most of us focus on just this life.

All we have been doing is to “take aspirins” as headaches resurfaced instead of finding a permanent solution to the “problem of never-ending headaches.” In every life, what we have done has been to “take aspirin” to (temporarily) solve problems as they materialize. The Buddha taught that one must address the root causes of Saṁsāric suffering to remove any future suffering.

This is the First Noble Truth of “ dukkha sacca” (pronounced “dukkha sachcha.”) It means “existence in this world of 31 realms is filled with suffering, and it is a never-ending process. But that can be overcome permanently”. Therefore, the main goal must be Nibbāna. There is no other permanent solution!

Nibbāna – Elimination of All Six Root Causes

16. Nibbāna does not have a cause. Eliminating all six root causes in #11 leads to Nibbāna. All these are removed via paññā or wisdom. It is essential to realize that wisdom means understanding the Four Noble Truths/Paṭicca Samuppāda/Tilakkhana.

But for now, it suffices to say that the four lowest realms of this world are “maintained” via the “bad roots” of greed, hate, and ignorance. The remaining 31 realms are “supported” by (the mundane versions of) non-greed, non-hate, and non-ignorance, the so-called “good roots.”
This is why the Noble Eightfold Path is two-fold: the mundane (lokiya) Noble Eightfold Path must be followed first to avoid birth in the lowest four realms and cleanse the mind to a certain extent. But one could “fall back” in future lives unless one gets to the Sotāpanna Anugāmi stage.
Then one follows the transcendental (lokottara) Noble Eightfold Path to attain Nibbāna by thoroughly cleansing the mind of all six roots. It is a step-by-step process.

[End]

I hope this helps, if you have any others questions or need something to be clarified, please feel free to ask.
I am a Buddhist that doesn't practice Buddhism. What I practice is nekkhamma, abyāpāda, avihiṁsā, viraga, nirodha or the Noble Eight Fold Path. The elimination / eradication / extermination of defilements, kilesa's, raga, dosa, moha and asava's.

Lineage: Buddha > Sthaviravada > Vibhajjavada > Theravada > Striving for Nibbana.
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