can watching porn,masturbation and sexual fantasy against third precept?

[bpallister]

i haven't watched any porn in awhile now. trying to stay away from that nasty stuff

[Akashad]

does masturbating while thinking of some one's partner against the third precept?
is it immoral to have sexual fantasies without the subject knowledge or consent?
it is against the third precept to watch porn while masturbating if the porn star is married?
should masturbation while fantasize someone require consent?

I dont understand why people think its not okay to fantasise about killing someone but perfectly fine to fantasise about having sex with them.

Masturbation for me is extremely wrong.

Like if people masturbate then masturbate but don't sugar coat it as wholesome.

Cause its not.

A lot of negative emotions arise with masturbation such as lust,greed,numbness even evil like hurting someone sexually as well as guilt and remorse,feeling unclean.

These are not figments of your imagination their real cause and effect resultants.

There is no way in hell that is wholesome.

Masturbation is not only unwholesome but also is a dangerous gateway to hell.

A lot of rapists,paedophiles and even killers who sexually torture their victims all STARTED with the same mentally that masturbation is normal nothing wrong..they were regular people back then not dangerous just normal people who developed a simple habit but paid a dangerous price for it and caused immense suffering in others.

the thoughts gradually becomes worse and worse and worse..

Mind before Matter.

So its all concentrated in the mind..this lust becomes an addiction becomes uncontrollable ..then before you know it it breeds a mentality that doesnt see anything wrong with adultery doesnt see anything wrong in sexual abuse..its all normal..

Its the opposite of metta,in metta you gradually train your mind to spread harmlessness to others..

masturbating,watching porn etc you train your mind to gradually see nothing wrong in being sexually immoral or treat humans as objects or enjoy other peoples pain and suffering.

soon you will see people who do not masturbate or who are asexual as "weird".

Ive watched youtube channels about guys who think people who are celibate are weird and strange and thrash them and they do so genuinly thinking something is wrong.

So instead of purification of the mind your gradually training your mind to accept masturbation and pornography as normal.

I know its hard to tell humans to not masturbate

So my only advice is dont do it thinking its wholesome..

Okay just like when you kill someone dont do it thinking thats wholesome..atleast recognize how unwholesome it is.

An action that is done out of wrong view e.g killing someone cause you believe its no big deal or you believe it will help you attain supernormal powers or whatever..is way worse than you doing something wrong but having right view...for example killing someone knowing full well the karmic consequences of it.Feeling remorse or guilt or fear knowing how grave the situation is.

Actions that occur in the mind also carry consequences.

This is why i don't accept any definition of being a sotapanna but still breaking the five precepts.Makes no sense at all.Do the gates of hell just close on their own??

Their closed cause sotappannas don't break the precepts.

Those minor transgression are exactly that
...minor.

Sotapannas dont just kill people but then its okay cause they own up to it and are honest about it..you know why..cause thats not going to stop them from falling into the hell realms.

Same with pornography and masturbation and adultery.Sotappannas dont just watch porn,masturbate and commit adultery..you know why..cause thats not going to stop them from falling into the hell realm.

This is how you know they can not break these precepts.

Theres nothing minor about pornography,masturbation and adultery.

[maniture_85]

Same with pornography and masturbation and adultery.Sotappannas dont just watch porn,masturbate and commit adultery..you know why..cause thats not going to stop them from falling into the hell realm.

Doesn't look correct to me. Do you have any sutta reference?

[santa100]

Doesn't look correct to me. Do you have any sutta reference?

The background story to SN 3.9 indicates that adulterers will go to hell. Ven. Bodhi's note citing Comy's explanation in "Connected Discourses":

Spk relates the background story, also found (in greater detail) at Dhp-a II 1-12; see BL 2:100-7 and Ja No. 314. In brief: The king had become infatuated with a married woman and planned to have her husband killed so that he could take his wife. One night, unable to sleep, he heard eerie cries of inexplicable origin. The next day, when he anxiously asked his brahmin chaplain to explain the meaning, the priest told him that the voices portended his imminent death, which he could avert only by performing a great sacrifice. When the king later inquired from the Buddha about the voices, the Buddha told him these were the cries of adulterers boiling in a cauldron in the great hell.

[maniture_85]

Doesn't look correct to me. Do you have any sutta reference?

The background story to SN 3.9 indicates that adulterers will go to hell. Ven. Bodhi's note citing Comy's explanation in "Connected Discourses":

Spk relates the background story, also found (in greater detail) at Dhp-a II 1-12; see BL 2:100-7 and Ja No. 314. In brief: The king had become infatuated with a married woman and planned to have her husband killed so that he could take his wife. One night, unable to sleep, he heard eerie cries of inexplicable origin. The next day, when he anxiously asked his brahmin chaplain to explain the meaning, the priest told him that the voices portended his imminent death, which he could avert only by performing a great sacrifice. When the king later inquired from the Buddha about the voices, the Buddha told him these were the cries of adulterers boiling in a cauldron in the great hell.

Understandable for adultery.
But what about masturbation?

[santa100]

Understandable for adultery.
But what about masturbation?

No explicit message on masturbation. But even if it doesn't technically break the 3rd precept in the case of lay folks, it obviously doesn't help the long term goal of eradicating lust, hatred, and ignorance.

[maniture_85]

Understandable for adultery.
But what about masturbation?

No explicit message on masturbation. But even if it doesn't technically break the 3rd precept in the case of lay folks, it obviously doesn't help the long term goal of eradicating lust, hatred, and ignorance.

Well, that sounds right to me.
I was pointing out to some Akashad's affirmations, that are in my opinion incorrect and biased.
Btw, a Sotapanna would never write down that Sotapannas never masturbate.

[santa100]

Btw, a Sotapanna would never write down that Sotapannas never masturbate.

Actually I wouldn't go that far. Notice that common stock phrase describing a Stream-Enterer in many suttas, ex.:

“He is endowed with virtues that are appealing to the noble ones: untorn, unbroken, unspotted, unsplattered, liberating, praised by the wise, untarnished, leading to concentration."

So, somehow, for some reason, beating one's meat just doesn't seem like the kind of activity that are appealing to the noble ones. It's actually quite "spotted" and quite.... "splattered"

[maniture_85]

Btw, a Sotapanna would never write down that Sotapannas never masturbate.

Actually I wouldn't go that far. Notice that common stock phrase describing a Stream-Enterer in many suttas, ex.:

“He is endowed with virtues that are appealing to the noble ones: untorn, unbroken, unspotted, unsplattered, liberating, praised by the wise, untarnished, leading to concentration."

So, somehow, for some reason, beating one's meat just doesn't seem like the kind of activity that are appealing to the noble ones. It's actually quite "spotted" and quite.... "splattered"

It is a kind of discussion that pops up from time to time.
As far as i know, there are some actions that are never done by a Sotapanna, and there are fetters that are abandoned.
Since some fetters are not eliminated, they manifest at many levels of intensity.
Illwill, lessened the next stages, is present, and as such it will manifest in various degree, for example.
If i would take some stating so literally, i would take only the very explicit ones.