When did handling money become so common?

[TRobinson465]

Hello Samsarans,


Does anyone know when monastics handling money became so common? As you all know pretty much all monastics (90%+ at the very least) in Thailand, sri lanka, Burma and pretty much every Buddhist country handles money nowadays despite the rule to the contrary. Its so common that if some disgruntled person was to complain about a particular temple handling money, they would basically be a laughing stock for criticizing one temple for doing something virtually every temple does except for a very small minority.

It was agreed in the second Buddhist council that monastics should not handle money, but that was obviously a very long time ago. Do the subsequent councils ever talk about this? Im curious if this is something that just developed gradually over centuries or if its just something that kinda developed in the modern era (due to things like modern property tax laws, and the fact that you cant pay your water and electricity bill with food and robe offerings).

[Mahabrahma]

I really don't like money. Even if I see a coin I kick it away. I hope this thread won't get too long because it is a sad subject. Many have strayed from the Path because of the ignorance and evils of "money".

[TRobinson465]

I really don't like money. Even if I see a coin I kick it away. I hope this thread won't get too long because it is a sad subject. Many have strayed from the Path because of the ignorance and evils of "money".

Agreed, money is very corrupting, which is why its logical the rule was made in the first place. i am just wondering historically why/when this happened where it became the norm.

[Mahabrahma]

Well I hope that will be the consensus. There are many who want to jump on the modern bandwagon and glorify the modern uses of money while at the same time turning around and pretending to preach the Path that ends suffering. Just remember that Bible verse on the illusionary love of money being the root of all kinds of evil.

[[james]]

I really don't like money. Even if I see a coin I kick it away. I hope this thread won't get too long because it is a sad subject. Many have strayed from the Path because of the ignorance and evil of "money".

Quite possibly many of the monastics mentioned above don’t like it either and yet, because money is now so ingrained into nearly every culture, it is very difficult to avoid its use. These days I rarely use physical money itself though I remain involved with its digital manifestation. I have also never liked money and that dislike has somewhat steered me into a relatively non-consumer lifestyle where I don’t actually need much money nor any of its debt entanglements. I wonder if or how one can function in a society without some measure and means of exchange of value.

[Jack19990101]

It is very interesting to know - I am under impression that Thai or Sri Lanka temples are not handling money. They have like a laity or a committee managing this for them.

[Mahabrahma]

I work as Bodhisattva, but I don't handle money. I send my finances to the Lay community and they manage my need for donations with kindness.

[jinic]

It was agreed in the second Buddhist council that monastics should not handle money, but that was obviously a very long time ago. Do the subsequent councils ever talk about this? Im curious if this is something that just developed gradually over centuries or if its just something that kinda developed in the modern era (due to things like modern property tax laws, and the fact that you cant pay your water and electricity bill with food and robe offerings).

As far as i know the matter of using money was an issue already at the 2nd council and the Sthavira didn't like it.

If i recall correctly those that became Sthavira criticized the using of money, going for alms several times, using cloth without borders, and other vinaya things.

[TRobinson465]

It is very interesting to know - I am under impression that Thai or Sri Lanka temples are not handling money. They have like a laity or a committee managing this for them.

The vast majority of monks in Thailand and Sri Lanka use or at least accept money. Some temples do have lay committees managing it but often times it is the monks directly. I generally don't fault monks for this tho. Most temples outside of the popular traditions do not have a reliable source of lay volunteers to manage the finances. Back in the Buddha's time they didn't have water and electricity bills so they could function without money at all and not need lay staff to depend on. In order to follow the rule today you pretty much have to have lay staff nowadays unless your temple is off the grid and doesn't use running water or electricity, but lay staff is not a luxury every temple has.

[TRobinson465]

It was agreed in the second Buddhist council that monastics should not handle money, but that was obviously a very long time ago. Do the subsequent councils ever talk about this? Im curious if this is something that just developed gradually over centuries or if its just something that kinda developed in the modern era (due to things like modern property tax laws, and the fact that you cant pay your water and electricity bill with food and robe offerings).

As far as i know the matter of using money was an issue already at the 2nd council and the Sthavira didn't like it.

If i recall correctly those that became Sthavira criticized the using of money, going for alms several times, using cloth without borders, and other vinaya things.

How interesting. I wonder if this started with any of the early Buddhist schools.

[Jack19990101]

The vast majority of monks in Thailand and Sri Lanka use or at least accept money. Some temples do have lay committees managing it but often times it is the monks directly. I generally don't fault monks for this tho. Most temples outside of the popular traditions do not have a reliable source of lay volunteers to manage the finances. Back in the Buddha's time they didn't have water and electricity bills so they could function without money at all and not need lay staff to depend on. In order to follow the rule today you pretty much have to have lay staff nowadays unless your temple is off the grid and doesn't use running water or electricity, but lay staff is not a luxury every temple has.

Mudita. Thanks for the explanation. I recognized that I only got a strawman version of temples admin.

I echo the same mentality to money using too - it is not a hardliner which stops me from veneration of a monk. For an isolated reclusive setting or a hermitage vihara, it might indeed is a tool.

[santa100]

Mudita. Thanks for the explanation. I recognized that I only got a strawman version of temples admin.

I echo the same mentality to money using too - it is not a hardliner which stops me from veneration of a monk. For an isolated reclusive setting or a hermitage vihara, it might indeed is a tool.

There're many problems related to monks handling money. The most obvious one is that it'd make all of them liars. Why? because during the full-ordination ceremony, they all swear in front of the Triple-Gems to uphold and protect the 227 rules of Pātimokkha while fully aware that they will not observe many of them, not just the Rūpiyasikkhāpada. Afterall, there're many reason why the Buddha did not allow monks handling money. Laymen's trust in monastics is the key factor, but it also includes accountability and transparency. Remember, monastics are humans just like us, and in an environment where one does not have to pay income tax to the state, and there's no lay committee to do the stuff lay folks are supposed to be doing, there'd be zero accountability and zero transparency. And wherever there's zero accountability and zero transparency, it is inevitable that corruption and abuse of wealth/power will take place!

[dharmacorps]

I work as Bodhisattva, but I don't handle money. I send my finances to the Lay community and they manage my need for donations with kindness.

This means you are ordained?

How did you get the paid job as a Bodhisattva?

[Mahabrahma]

I work as Bodhisattva, but I don't handle money. I send my finances to the Lay community and they manage my need for donations with kindness.

This means you are ordained?

How did you get the paid job as a Bodhisattva?

I can't talk about my job but I am ordained as a Bodhisattva in my Vajrayana lineage of Buddhists, specifically the Drikung Kagyu. It means a lot to me, and kindles Compassion for me to subsequently devote my life to the Mystic Law of the Lotus Sutra, which preaches the Ekayana Doctrine.

The Ekayana preaches a single Buddha Vehicle, and incorporates all of Buddhism, including Theravada into it.

[Mahabrahma]

My full ordination as a Bodhisattva took a year because I completed a special Vow to continue to return to the Saha World every year of Brahma, until it's cessation. But I happily completed it all! I just have a lot of Compassion.