Dhamma as a Mirror

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
pegembara
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Re: Dhamma as a Mirror

Post by pegembara »

sakyan wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:38 am Just as a mirror is used to examine one's face, one's body.

The dhamma i.e all dhammas are dukkha, anicca,anatta was used as a ground to examine the 5 khandas by the Venerable one.

The khandas were seen as they really are, hollow and empty of permanence, happiness and self.

All fetters were eradicated, The mind attained deathless.
Sabbe dhamma(both conditioned and unconditioned) anatta
Just like that. :toast:
"Just as when boys or girls are playing with little sand castles:[4] as long as they are not free from passion, desire, love, thirst, fever, & craving for those little sand castles, that's how long they have fun with those sand castles, enjoy them, treasure them, feel possessive of them. But when they become free from passion, desire, love, thirst, fever, & craving for those little sand castles, then they smash them, scatter them, demolish them with their hands or feet and make them unfit for play.

"In the same way, Radha, you too should smash, scatter, & demolish form, and make it unfit for play. Practice for the ending of craving for form.

"You should smash, scatter, & demolish feeling, and make it unfit for play. Practice for the ending of craving for feeling.

"You should smash, scatter, & demolish perception, and make it unfit for play. Practice for the ending of craving for perception.

"You should smash, scatter, & demolish fabrications, and make them unfit for play. Practice for the ending of craving for fabrications.

"You should smash, scatter, & demolish consciousness and make it unfit for play. Practice for the ending of craving for consciousness — for the ending of craving, Radha, is Unbinding."
"This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Nibbana."
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
thepea
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Re: Dhamma as a Mirror

Post by thepea »

DNS wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:37 pm Anatta -- nothing permanent there. Every time you look at the mirror, there is a different image. It's never the same. Even an inanimate object in a mirror is different the next time it is in front of the mirror. "You can't step into the same river twice."
But the mirror is permanent and always the same.
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DNS
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Re: Dhamma as a Mirror

Post by DNS »

thepea wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:04 pm
DNS wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:37 pm Anatta -- nothing permanent there. Every time you look at the mirror, there is a different image. It's never the same. Even an inanimate object in a mirror is different the next time it is in front of the mirror. "You can't step into the same river twice."
But the mirror is permanent and always the same.
No, the image is different every time. And even the mirror is different. It changes it's molecular structure continually. It deteriorates and perishes.

Image
thepea
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Re: Dhamma as a Mirror

Post by thepea »

DNS wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:21 pm
thepea wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:04 pm
DNS wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:37 pm Anatta -- nothing permanent there. Every time you look at the mirror, there is a different image. It's never the same. Even an inanimate object in a mirror is different the next time it is in front of the mirror. "You can't step into the same river twice."
But the mirror is permanent and always the same.
No, the image is different every time. And even the mirror is different. It changes it's molecular structure continually. It deteriorates and perishes.

Image
In this stanza the dhamma is being illustrated as the teacher. This aspect of dhamma is permanent. The mirror is not the impermanent self in this stanza.
skandha
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Re: Dhamma as a Mirror

Post by skandha »

thepea wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:41 am
DNS wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:21 pm
thepea wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:04 pm

But the mirror is permanent and always the same.
No, the image is different every time. And even the mirror is different. It changes it's molecular structure continually. It deteriorates and perishes.

Image
In this stanza the dhamma is being illustrated as the teacher. This aspect of dhamma is permanent. The mirror is not the impermanent self in this stanza.
The quality of timelessness (akaliko) from the recollection of Dhamma formula.
A true master of knowledge has passed beyond all that is known and become dispassionate towards all vedanās.
- Sn 529
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SDC
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Re: Dhamma as a Mirror

Post by SDC »

thepea wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:41 am
In this stanza the dhamma is being illustrated as the teacher. This aspect of dhamma is permanent. The mirror is not the impermanent self in this stanza.
It’s a teacher because it is always reflecting what is accurate, but it is up to the individual to develop the skills to make use of that accuracy.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
thepea
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Re: Dhamma as a Mirror

Post by thepea »

SDC wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:47 am
thepea wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:41 am
In this stanza the dhamma is being illustrated as the teacher. This aspect of dhamma is permanent. The mirror is not the impermanent self in this stanza.
It’s a teacher because it is always reflecting what is accurate, but it is up to the individual to develop the skills to make use of that accuracy.
Certainly but this teacher is permanent in this stanza. This is the paradox of apparent and ultimate reality. Who experiences Nibanna?
thepea
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Re: Dhamma as a Mirror

Post by thepea »

skandha wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:42 am
thepea wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:41 am
DNS wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:21 pm

No, the image is different every time. And even the mirror is different. It changes it's molecular structure continually. It deteriorates and perishes.

Image
In this stanza the dhamma is being illustrated as the teacher. This aspect of dhamma is permanent. The mirror is not the impermanent self in this stanza.
The quality of timelessness (akaliko) from the recollection of Dhamma formula.
This is an incomplete sentence. P op erhaps expand please.
pegembara
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Re: Dhamma as a Mirror

Post by pegembara »

The 'mirror' is a 'thing' that reflects objects.
Without the objects, there is no mirror. Just a piece of glass and silver - empty!
Like a rainbow or cloud is empty.

The wind blows but without the blowing, there is no wind.

“When there is this, that comes to be; with the arising of this, that arises. When there is not this, that does not come to be; with the cessation of this, that ceases”

Dependently arisen thing.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
justindesilva
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Re: Dhamma as a Mirror

Post by justindesilva »

thepea wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:04 pm
DNS wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:37 pm Anatta -- nothing permanent there. Every time you look at the mirror, there is a different image. It's never the same. Even an inanimate object in a mirror is different the next time it is in front of the mirror. "You can't step into the same river twice."
But the mirror is permanent and always the same.
To me reflections through a broken mirror is like a person with avidya observing from an unbroken mirror .
skandha
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Re: Dhamma as a Mirror

Post by skandha »

thepea wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:03 am
skandha wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:42 am
thepea wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:41 am

In this stanza the dhamma is being illustrated as the teacher. This aspect of dhamma is permanent. The mirror is not the impermanent self in this stanza.
The quality of timelessness (akaliko) from the recollection of Dhamma formula.
This is an incomplete sentence. P op erhaps expand please.
I was just supporting what you said. One of the qualities of the dhamma taught by the Buddha is that of timelessness (akaliko), which is pretty close to the meaning of permanent.

From the Pali formula used to recollect the qualities of the dhamma that is taught by the Buddha.
Svakkhato Bhagavata dhammo sanditthiko akaliko ehipassiko opanayiko paccattam vedittabbo vinnuhiti.
A true master of knowledge has passed beyond all that is known and become dispassionate towards all vedanās.
- Sn 529
justindesilva
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Re: Dhamma as a Mirror

Post by justindesilva »

skandha wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:44 am
thepea wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:03 am
skandha wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:42 am

The quality of timelessness (akaliko) from the recollection of Dhamma formula.
This is an incomplete sentence. P op erhaps expand please.
I was just supporting what you said. One of the qualities of the dhamma taught by the Buddha is that of timelessness (akaliko), which is pretty close to the meaning of permanent.

From the Pali formula used to recollect the qualities of the dhamma that is taught by the Buddha.
Svakkhato Bhagavata dhammo sanditthiko akaliko ehipassiko opanayiko paccattam vedittabbo vinnuhiti.
Akaliko is just not really timelessness but keepiing on happening like the paticcasamuppada . A reaction which keeps on conditions from the past to now and now to future, The reaction never ends but keeps on with an action from moment to moment ,
It is a condition of dynamic cosmic equilibrium from moment to moment which does not end except with nirvana .
thepea
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Re: Dhamma as a Mirror

Post by thepea »

justindesilva wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:42 am
thepea wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:04 pm
DNS wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:37 pm Anatta -- nothing permanent there. Every time you look at the mirror, there is a different image. It's never the same. Even an inanimate object in a mirror is different the next time it is in front of the mirror. "You can't step into the same river twice."
But the mirror is permanent and always the same.
To me reflections through a broken mirror is like a person with avidya observing from an unbroken mirror .
But the mirror is independent of mind and body it has no form to break. The mirror observes the reflection until all that can be reflected dissolves away then the mirror sees its own reflection. The timeless eternal(Nibanna).
thepea
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Re: Dhamma as a Mirror

Post by thepea »

skandha wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:44 am
thepea wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:03 am
skandha wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:42 am

The quality of timelessness (akaliko) from the recollection of Dhamma formula.
This is an incomplete sentence. P op erhaps expand please.
I was just supporting what you said. One of the qualities of the dhamma taught by the Buddha is that of timelessness (akaliko), which is pretty close to the meaning of permanent.

From the Pali formula used to recollect the qualities of the dhamma that is taught by the Buddha.
Svakkhato Bhagavata dhammo sanditthiko akaliko ehipassiko opanayiko paccattam vedittabbo vinnuhiti.
Thank you for clarifying. I couldn’t decipher what point you were trying to make in previous post.
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SDC
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Re: Dhamma as a Mirror

Post by SDC »

thepea wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:00 am
SDC wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:47 am
thepea wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:41 am
In this stanza the dhamma is being illustrated as the teacher. This aspect of dhamma is permanent. The mirror is not the impermanent self in this stanza.
It’s a teacher because it is always reflecting what is accurate, but it is up to the individual to develop the skills to make use of that accuracy.
Certainly but this teacher is permanent in this stanza. This is the paradox of apparent and ultimate reality. Who experiences Nibanna?
No, the principle of Dhamma, and the Path, are always a potentiality for those not free from suffering. Once the principle has been established, it can be used to uproot the defilements.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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