Is it so easy to reach the Pure Land?

[santa100]

He mentioned the conditions of entering the pure land in the vow. Not killing insects is not mentioned in the conditions. So a priori it is not a condition.

But that's the whole point, killing insects is not mentioned, neither is mass murder and serial raping! (as long as those who are killed and raped are not one's own parents, in order to satisfy that Five Heinous crimes minimal requirement). So going with your logic, if it was ok for you, the insect-killer to enter Pure Land, it should also be ok for mass murderers and serial rapists too!

I don't see a problem with that

But that IS the problem. If anyone can go there, there's no need for the concept of Amitabha and no need for His 48 vows. Matter of fact, Christians, Muslims and all other religious believers can make their own arguments that Pure Land is a useless place, for their version of paradises would be much better places to be, as long as one "sincerely believe in" Christ, or Allah, or whoever....

[santa100]

And if even mass murderers and serial rapists could enter Pure Land, then everyone should be able to go there and there'd be no need for Amitabha to make His 48 vows in the first place!

Why ?

Because if Pure Land was the place of mass murderers and serial rapists, the whole notion of Amitabha and His 48 would be one big gigantic lie, for there'd be nothing "Pure" about that "Land". One might as well calling it the Dumpster Land instead!

[DeadBuddha]

But that's the whole point, killing insects is not mentioned, neither is mass murder and serial raping! (as long as those who are killed and raped are not one's own parents, in order to satisfy that Five Heinous crimes minimal requirement). So going with your logic, if it was ok for you, the insect-killer to enter Pure Land, it should also be ok for mass murderers and serial rapists too!

I don't see a problem with that

But that IS the problem. If anyone can go there, there's no need for the concept of Amitabha and no need for His 48 vows. Matter of fact, Christians, Muslims and all other religious believers can make their own arguments that Pure Land is a useless place, for their version of paradises would be much better places to be, as long as one "sincerely believe in" Christ, or Allah, or whoever....

Those who have committed the 5 serious faults cannot go.

[santa100]

Those who have committed the 5 serious faults cannot go.

And if mass murders and serial rapists could go, one should just call it Dumpster Land, not Pure Land.

[cappuccino]

Is it really so easy (compared to the monk) to reach the Pure Land?

You have to be Anāgāmi

[asahi]

According to pureland teachings if mass murderers and serial rapists repented before they dies and have faith in Buddha Amitabha and pureland and chanted His names , the possibility of reborn in pureland is there .

[Jack19990101]

Maybe there should not be injection of doubt to this faith based practice.
hence the removal

[santa100]

According to pureland teachings if mass murderers and serial rapists repented before they dies and have faith in Buddha Amitabha and pureland and chanted His names , the possibility of reborn in pureland is there .

And that itself is a big problem, as you'd probably already guessed, mass murderers, serial rapists, pathological liars, etc. who learned about that kind of teaching would continue to kill, rape, and lie until the very last moment before they die, if all that's needed was some mere faith and name chanting!

Anyway, I've just checked on the origin of that vow and found it in a Sutra called "The Infinite Life Sutra" with the exact quote below:

(18) If, when I attain Buddhahood, sentient beings in the lands of the ten quarters who sincerely and joyfully entrust themselves to me, desire to be born in my land, and call my Name, even ten times, should not be born there, may I not attain perfect Enlightenment. Excluded, however, are those who commit the five gravest offences and abuse the right Dharma.

So per the highlighted part, Pureland practitioners nowadays somehow intentionally or unintentionally ignore the "abuse the right Dharma" part, while only mention the "commit the five gravest offences" part!!!

[asahi]

According to pureland teachings if mass murderers and serial rapists repented before they dies and have faith in Buddha Amitabha and pureland and chanted His names , the possibility of reborn in pureland is there .

And that itself is a big problem, as you'd probably already guessed, mass murderers, serial rapists, pathological liars, etc. who learned about that kind of teaching would continue to kill, rape, and lie until the very last moment before they die, if all that's needed was some mere faith and name chanting!

Well , not to worry so much santa100 , how many percentage of them would repent at the moment of near death plus believing in Buddha Amitabha and pureland existence ?! I would say not 1 in a million .
Therefore , this faith practice is not as easy as one presumed . According to Amitabha Sutra , it says one need to chants starting from 1 day , 2 days , 3 days , 4 days , 5 days , 6 days and up to 7 days with sincerity in order to establish a peaceful calmed recollected mind to enable to be reborn in the pureland . And also need to equip with abundance puñña and many good conditions . A person whom are lucky with very heavy karma or little puñña only can reborn at "border" of pureland .

[santa100]

...

Please see my updated post above. I've just found the source text and updated it.

[TRobinson465]

Hello.

I find that if it is possible to reach a Pure Land simply by having a deep faith in Amithaba and reciting his name, then I don't see why becoming a monk would be such a big deal.

I think it's similar to Christian pastors. They believe they will get to heaven anyways but become pastors hoping to help more souls. Pure land monks is probably the same rationale to an extent

[tamdrin]

It was interesting... I've always wondered does the pure land of Amitabha exist? It seems so miraculous it's hard for us to believe it. I asked a disciple of Ajahn Anan, who is a very highly respected Thai forest monk of the highest caliber. According to this disciple, Ajahn Anan has said that the Amitabha pure land does in fact exist. People always ask him if heaven and hell exist as well and he answers in the affirmative. I highly recommend Ajahn Anan's dhamma talks available on YouTube.

[Jack19990101]

Yeah... we should not have doubt of those lands...

[Jack19990101]

Altho i don't think it is as easy as some opinion claims.

[Mahabrahma]

Here are the "passed down" Vows of the Amida Buddha.

https://sanmateobuddhisttemple.org/48-v ... harmakara/

"48 VOWS OF BODHISATTVA DHARMAKARA (AMIDA BUDDHA)"