Letting go

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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Kamran
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Re: Letting go

Post by Kamran »

D1W1 wrote: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:58 am Hello all,

I'm not sure if this is considered Vipassana, Samatha, loving kindness or something else.
The short question is, how do we practice letting go in the meditation? Letting go of, greed, hate, fear, etc. Thanks all.
You can do this with daily meditation on death. While it may sound morbid, it is actually a meditation of letting go, because you focus on all you have to let go when you die and how you are nothing but the elements of the earth in reality, thereby reducing the ego.

Another way is through breath meditation. When you notice the breath is uncomfortable because you are controlling it, just remind yourself that it's your ego that's being controlling and how nice and relaxing it feels to not control the breath - that's how nice it is to give up trying to control things in real life too....

This is a practice to teach you to just let the breath and things in life come to you and let go. How peaceful and pleasant it is to let go of the ego.
sunnat
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Re: Letting go

Post by sunnat »

The conditioned habit or underlying tendency is to ‘cling’ to, (try to make them nicca), ephemeral phenomena and in doing so repeatedly leave the present.

The correct training (Vipassana, Samatha, Metta) of abandoning again and again these underlying tendencies is to ‘let go’ of them and remain in the present, being mindful of the true anicca nature of all things.
xun2x
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Re: Letting go

Post by xun2x »

Sam Vara wrote: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:56 am
D1W1 wrote: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:58 am Hello all,

I'm not sure if this is considered Vipassana, Samatha, loving kindness or something else.
The short question is, how do we practice letting go in the meditation? Letting go of, greed, hate, fear, etc. Thanks all.
Here's one method. When you notice greed, or hate, or fear, etc. in your mind, simply be aware that it is there; and then return your attention to the object of your meditation (for example, the breath). Don't dwell on or think about the negative quality, other than acknowledging that it is there. Don't explore the negative quality, allowing your mind to confirm it by grasping at particular details. Or if you do, acknowledge that, and then return to the object of the meditation. Just allow the negative thought or feeling to pass by, without bothering it with your concern. It can take a long time to do this, because it goes against what the mind has been conditioned to do. And sometimes it feels easy and obvious, whereas on other occasions it can appear to be impossible, and then that gives rise to frustration. But persist with it, and see what happens...
I can see a few people in this group know about that. :namaste:
BrokenBones
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Re: Letting go

Post by BrokenBones »

"And as I remained thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, thinking imbued with sensuality arose in me. I discerned that 'Thinking imbued with sensuality has arisen in me; and that leads to my own affliction or to the affliction of others or to the affliction of both. It obstructs discernment, promotes vexation, & does not lead to Unbinding.'

"As I noticed that it leads to my own affliction, it subsided. As I noticed that it leads to the affliction of others... to the affliction of both... it obstructs discernment, promotes vexation, & does not lead to Unbinding, it subsided. Whenever thinking imbued with sensuality had arisen, I simply abandoned it, dispelled it, wiped it out of existence.


https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Replace 'abandoned' with 'Let go' and you have direct instructions from the Buddha.

Noticing arising sensuality and just moving on is simply ignoring and masking the problem. This technique has become the standard practice in Buddhist circles and every self help group in the world. Unfortunately, the technique involves no Right View and simply pushes the problem down the road.

One needs to use thinking & investigation to see how it has arisen (feeling/craving/clinging/becoming/birth/ aging etc.) and the problems it causes and how one can abandon/let go of the craving (transcendental dependent arising) and the benefits of doing so.

A good practice is to actually recall (sati) a recurring sensual theme that is playing on your mind e.g. becoming wealthy, and use the Buddha's technique to gradually lessen its hold.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Letting go

Post by Ceisiwr »

BrokenBones wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:30 pm
Noticing arising sensuality and just moving on is simply ignoring and masking the problem. This technique has become the standard practice in Buddhist circles and every self help group in the world. Unfortunately, the technique involves no Right View and simply pushes the problem down the road.
In MN 20 ignoring something like sensual desire is one of the methods for overcoming it.
III “If, while he is examining the danger in those thoughts, there still arise in him evil unwholesome thoughts connected with desire, with hate, and with delusion, then he should try to forget those thoughts and should not give attention to them. When he tries to forget those thoughts and does not give attention to them, then any evil unwholesome thoughts connected with desire, with hate, and with delusion are abandoned in him and subside. With the abandoning of them his mind becomes steadied internally, quieted, brought to singleness, and concentrated. Just as a man with good eyes who did not want to see forms that had come within range of sight would either shut his eyes or look away, so too…when a bhikkhu tries to forget those thoughts and does not give attention to them … his mind becomes steadied internally, quieted, brought to singleness, and concentrated.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Dhammapardon
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Re: Letting go

Post by Dhammapardon »

With the understanding of anatta, there is no longer a perception of self for what's been let go to return to (or track down).
If anatta has not been fully understood, there may be a perception of self still remaining for what's been let go to return to.
https://suttacentral.net/mn25/en/sujato?layout=plain&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote: So then a fourth herd of deer thought up a plan, ‘The first … second … and third herds of deer … failed to get free of the trapper’s power. Why don’t we set up our lair somewhere the trapper and his companions can’t go?
Just as a bird, wherever it goes, flies with its wings as its only burden; so too is he content with a set of robes to provide for his body and almsfood to provide for his hunger. Wherever he goes, he takes only his barest necessities along. This is how a monk is content.(DN11)
BrokenBones
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Re: Letting go

Post by BrokenBones »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:33 pm
BrokenBones wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:30 pm
Noticing arising sensuality and just moving on is simply ignoring and masking the problem. This technique has become the standard practice in Buddhist circles and every self help group in the world. Unfortunately, the technique involves no Right View and simply pushes the problem down the road.
In MN 20 ignoring something like sensual desire is one of the methods for overcoming it.
III “If, while he is examining the danger in those thoughts, there still arise in him evil unwholesome thoughts connected with desire, with hate, and with delusion, then he should try to forget those thoughts and should not give attention to them. When he tries to forget those thoughts and does not give attention to them, then any evil unwholesome thoughts connected with desire, with hate, and with delusion are abandoned in him and subside. With the abandoning of them his mind becomes steadied internally, quieted, brought to singleness, and concentrated. Just as a man with good eyes who did not want to see forms that had come within range of sight would either shut his eyes or look away, so too…when a bhikkhu tries to forget those thoughts and does not give attention to them … his mind becomes steadied internally, quieted, brought to singleness, and concentrated.
Yes, it's a short term measure for really bad stuff you can't handle. If you want to let go of something in a more permanent way you need to know how it arises and how its passing away is achieved. The dangers of it being there and relief of giving it up.

That's not to say a seasoned practitioner can't run through these aspects of Right View in a very quick manner.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Letting go

Post by Ceisiwr »

BrokenBones wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:27 pm Yes, it's a short term measure for really bad stuff you can't handle. If you want to let go of something in a more permanent way you need to know how it arises and how its passing away is achieved. The dangers of it being there and relief of giving it up.
I agree. In terms of the hindrances, they come to be because of attention.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Sam Vara
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Re: Letting go

Post by Sam Vara »

BrokenBones wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:30 pm
Noticing arising sensuality and just moving on is simply ignoring and masking the problem.
It might depend on what is meant by "moving on". Normally, the mind "moves on" by attaching to the object, developing craving, or generating another unhelpful volition such as aversion. That will, presumably, mask the problem. But if one catches the mind before it can do these habitual things, and the "moving on" consists of a return to the meditation object after letting go of the object of craving, then that's a beneficial result. The mind settles. Or at least, I've found it to be so in my practice.
pudai
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Re: Letting go

Post by pudai »

D1W1 wrote: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:58 am Hello all,

I'm not sure if this is considered Vipassana, Samatha, loving kindness or something else.
The short question is, how do we practice letting go in the meditation? Letting go of, greed, hate, fear, etc. Thanks all.
The Klesha are what appear between the three poisons for a working example; Say you are a lay practitioner/ householder and you are lonely so you go out to the marketplace to linger to be around people to alleviate the loneliness... Such a thing is quite common. Such a thing is the Samsara route of remedy to a problem one seeks to find a cure for... If one does such a thing with the intent to remove loneliness? Then it is the same as throwing more wood on an already blazing fire and the tail of Yama grows even longer.

However; Using the same scenario for practice? Then one knows that greed, lust/desire and hate arises in such situations. Going out to find a cure for loneliness one is already under the influence of all three poisons before leaving. So looking for it is not difficult like a shadow it is still there even when practicing but knowing you are practicing? Is skillful means. So say you are in a place and make friends with someone and frequent it more often and you see an attachment growing? Such a thing is good and such a thing is desirable for practice... Then someone comes along don't worry someone will always come along and step between this growing friendship just like the Klesha sitting between the three poisons... the best seat to take? The one of jealousy... watch it arise as this person steps between you and the new friend... see between greed(having the person all to yourself) and hate(not having them all to yourself) sits the glue or Klesha(jealousy)... right where you need to be in practice to see it arise and pass no different in breath.

Knowing that in such a situation? You are conditioned to be jealous by both self and other and supposed to be jealous? Then you can break the spell or the illusion of the entire Bhavana by choosing not to be jealous when all of Samsara is expecting jealousy to occur.

The key of practice of removing the three poisons doesn't lay in the identification with; Hate, Greed, Delusion those are too big a role and too fast for practice as they have typically arisen and youre left scrambling to put the fire out and then left having conditioned yourself to become anxious and fearful of similar situations yet to arise... Choosing the Klesha is the path of the wise in uprooting the poisons as they are laying there smoldering embers waiting for a log of greed or hate to burst into flames... once the situation has burst? The best one can do is leave the situation having been ambushed by the three poisons and other Klesha to reinforce the conditioning of Samsara not escape it.

So get to know your Klesha sit on it like a familiar chair see it arise like an itch and know its one that can be prevented with mindfulness.
The six senses accommodate; All the factors of existence... The All.
Apart from; The All... Nothing exists.
The senses are empty of a self & what belongs to a self.
BrokenBones
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Re: Letting go

Post by BrokenBones »

Sam Vara wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:46 pm
BrokenBones wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:30 pm
Noticing arising sensuality and just moving on is simply ignoring and masking the problem.
It might depend on what is meant by "moving on". Normally, the mind "moves on" by attaching to the object, developing craving, or generating another unhelpful volition such as aversion. That will, presumably, mask the problem. But if one catches the mind before it can do these habitual things, and the "moving on" consists of a return to the meditation object after letting go of the object of craving, then that's a beneficial result. The mind settles. Or at least, I've found it to be so in my practice.
That's fine. The question would be... what wisdom lies with the meditation object?

One hasn't established Right View by moving on.

Right View would have to reside in the meditation object e.g asubha.

Without Right View we are just doing the 'common' meditation.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Letting go

Post by Sam Vara »

BrokenBones wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:31 am
Sam Vara wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:46 pm
BrokenBones wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:30 pm
Noticing arising sensuality and just moving on is simply ignoring and masking the problem.
It might depend on what is meant by "moving on". Normally, the mind "moves on" by attaching to the object, developing craving, or generating another unhelpful volition such as aversion. That will, presumably, mask the problem. But if one catches the mind before it can do these habitual things, and the "moving on" consists of a return to the meditation object after letting go of the object of craving, then that's a beneficial result. The mind settles. Or at least, I've found it to be so in my practice.
That's fine. The question would be... what wisdom lies with the meditation object?

One hasn't established Right View by moving on.
It depends on what one means by all these concepts, of course. "Moving on", "Right View", and "wisdom". Maybe a person practising "moving on" in the way I describe has enough Right View or wisdom to initiate, inform and see the benefit of the practice. Or maybe the settling process brought about by the meditation is conducive to Right View. It's hard to judge someone's wisdom or views at the best of times, and especially after attempting to discern what they mean from a few phrases.
Right View would have to reside in the meditation object e.g asubha.


I think I know what you mean, but I don't see a view as residing in an object. Perhaps more in how the object is related to.
Without Right View we are just doing the 'common' meditation.
Maybe. Who knows what's common or uncommon?
pudai
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Re: Letting go

Post by pudai »

Sam Vara wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:49 am
BrokenBones wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:31 am
Sam Vara wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:46 pm

It might depend on what is meant by "moving on". Normally, the mind "moves on" by attaching to the object, developing craving, or generating another unhelpful volition such as aversion. That will, presumably, mask the problem. But if one catches the mind before it can do these habitual things, and the "moving on" consists of a return to the meditation object after letting go of the object of craving, then that's a beneficial result. The mind settles. Or at least, I've found it to be so in my practice.
That's fine. The question would be... what wisdom lies with the meditation object?

One hasn't established Right View by moving on.
It depends on what one means by all these concepts, of course. "Moving on", "Right View", and "wisdom". Maybe a person practising "moving on" in the way I describe has enough Right View or wisdom to initiate, inform and see the benefit of the practice. Or maybe the settling process brought about by the meditation is conducive to Right View. It's hard to judge someone's wisdom or views at the best of times, and especially after attempting to discern what they mean from a few phrases.
Right View would have to reside in the meditation object e.g asubha.


I think I know what you mean, but I don't see a view as residing in an object. Perhaps more in how the object is related to.
Without Right View we are just doing the 'common' meditation.
Maybe. Who knows what's common or uncommon?
-
I was taught that in following the precepts the entire eight-fold is accomplished. So in following those one shouldn't be concerned about all the "rights" as if it is or isn't right this or that and just settle into practice.

Worrying about hand spans of fabric etc. isn't path and yet it is... is something to be more concerned about for the dhamma to peaceably continue as sangha as a community goes.
The six senses accommodate; All the factors of existence... The All.
Apart from; The All... Nothing exists.
The senses are empty of a self & what belongs to a self.
RobertoAnces
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Re: Letting go

Post by RobertoAnces »

D1W1 wrote: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:58 am Hello all,

I'm not sure if this is considered Vipassana, Samatha, loving kindness or something else.
The short question is, how do we practice letting go in the meditation? Letting go of, greed, hate, fear, etc. Thanks all.
If by letting go you mean animitta samadhi according to the suttas, silent illumination according to Chan or shikantaza (just sitting) according to Zen. It's one of the many methods of meditation that appears in the suttas and shared by all the main Buddhist schools.

I think it is a very widely used method of meditation in Zen and Chan, maybe the main method, and shared by the Thai Forest Tradition.

It's vipasanna and samatha at the same time, in this video bhante suddhaso explains it from the Theravada point of view, skip the meditation at the beginning and see where he explains it, if someone is interested the method is well explained although long video:



As I suppose is to large to see it, just my summary/opinion:

One of the main advantages that I see in this method is that is very well suited for lay people, it can be done all day(that's fully congruent with guarding sense doors, your have sati all day, you se when craving or clinging arises for senses so you can guard them, when you see craving or clinging arising you can let it go, guard your senses doors and keep sila), although obviously if you are sitting it is a lot easier and your mind is more still. Drawbacks are that can by difficult, not having a meditation object is prone to get lost, and as always everyone has to use the method that suits him the best ...

The explanation of the video is good, but here everyone has their point of view, mine would be that the mind does not stop doing things and this meditation consists of doing nothing, or stop doing, or letting go ("do nothing" as always said in Zen or "let it go" as said in TFT).

Basically it would be to stop doing things starting from the coarse things that mind does to the most refined subtle things that mind does, thinking, judging, creating time experience, creating space experience, creating ego experience ...

IMO stop doing or letting go is understood as not having craving or clinging (not as getting rid of things, fighting with them), that is, if a thought arises but there is no craving or clinging, it's ok, that is, you do not crave to it or see it as yours. This is why it can be done during the day or in walking meditation, if you are washing the dishes but there is no craving or clinging, you are not really "doing anything" because there is no appropriation/identification/grasping/clinging/atta/ego of your mental processes ... although the result is that less and less dhammas arise in mind if you stop clinging and craving, mind gets still, that's the samatha part, IMO this is not the objective, the main objective is to learn about craving and clinging (anatta), that's the vipasanna part, and let go of clinging and craving.

Metta.
pudai
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Re: Letting go

Post by pudai »

RobertoAnces wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:17 pm
D1W1 wrote: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:58 am Hello all,

I'm not sure if this is considered Vipassana, Samatha, loving kindness or something else.
The short question is, how do we practice letting go in the meditation? Letting go of, greed, hate, fear, etc. Thanks all.
If by letting go you mean animitta samadhi according to the suttas, silent illumination according to Chan or shikantaza (just sitting) according to Zen. It's one of the many methods of meditation that appears in the suttas and shared by all the main Buddhist schools.

I think it is a very widely used method of meditation in Zen and Chan, maybe the main method, and shared by the Thai Forest Tradition.

It's vipasanna and samatha at the same time, in this video bhante suddhaso explains it from the Theravada point of view, skip the meditation at the beginning and see where he explains it, if someone is interested the method is well explained although long video:



As I suppose is to large to see it, just my summary/opinion:

One of the main advantages that I see in this method is that is very well suited for lay people, it can be done all day(that's fully congruent with guarding sense doors, your have sati all day, you se when craving or clinging arises for senses so you can guard them, when you see craving or clinging arising you can let it go, guard your senses doors and keep sila), although obviously if you are sitting it is a lot easier and your mind is more still. Drawbacks are that can by difficult, not having a meditation object is prone to get lost, and as always everyone has to use the method that suits him the best ...

The explanation of the video is good, but here everyone has their point of view, mine would be that the mind does not stop doing things and this meditation consists of doing nothing, or stop doing, or letting go ("do nothing" as always said in Zen or "let it go" as said in TFT).

Basically it would be to stop doing things starting from the coarse things that mind does to the most refined subtle things that mind does, thinking, judging, creating time experience, creating space experience, creating ego experience ...

IMO stop doing or letting go is understood as not having craving or clinging (not as getting rid of things, fighting with them), that is, if a thought arises but there is no craving or clinging, it's ok, that is, you do not crave to it or see it as yours. This is why it can be done during the day or in walking meditation, if you are washing the dishes but there is no craving or clinging, you are not really "doing anything" because there is no appropriation/identification/grasping/clinging/atta/ego of your mental processes ... although the result is that less and less dhammas arise in mind if you stop clinging and craving, mind gets still, that's the samatha part, IMO this is not the objective, the main objective is to learn about craving and clinging (anatta), that's the vipasanna part, and let go of clinging and craving.

Metta.
The clinging and craving self is what was described above as the gross and subtle "mind"... The one that adds a mustache to the Mona Lisa etc. The wisdom part knows that doing such a thing by all classes beings is beginingless and there is no self in it.... Suffering depends on that attachment or desire that there is a self or could be a self to be found in it; But seeing that the skandha are just that; A gross and subtle mind?

Then such a thing is then easily seen and abandoned as neither wholesome or unwholesome, pure or impure just worldly as it is the intent that builds the karma not the action.... If the intent on sweeping the floor is for some praise, payment or accolades then that's really negative karma even though the person doing it is expecting a positive result from it. Seeing the floor needs sweeping and looking then looking for the broom is the noble search... the first person you meet while sweeping it is likely their job and on having their job of broom then in hand have to deal with their Mara of them neglecting that duty/job.

*The phantom shoe straightener of all of those piled up outside the hall strikes again*
The six senses accommodate; All the factors of existence... The All.
Apart from; The All... Nothing exists.
The senses are empty of a self & what belongs to a self.
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