Do you believe in the real possibility of developing psychic powers (walking on water, crossing walls, levitating, etc.)

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Cause_and_Effect
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Re: Do you believe in the real possibility of developing psychic powers (walking on water, crossing walls, levitating, e

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

SDC wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:06 pm
Cause_and_Effect wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 4:01 am Some see it as causing a type of 'jhana' like state of expanded consciousness which likewise can trigger well documented psychic phenomena and insight into the nature of reality.
If you don't think it does that then that's fine.
Those who do will utilize them accordingly and beneficially and judiciously in conjunction with meditation.

I always make clear, I neither recommend not dissuade anyone from studying more about the subject, hence why I only reference the best academic material on it.
The suttas do not describe jhana as being induced on account of chemistry, but do so on account of deliberate effort to develop a lifestyle of virtue, restraint and seclusion from sense pleasures and unwholesome states. Psychedelics are not the topic of this thread, and are a purely sensual experience.

Furthermore, the six great knowledges (psychic powers), which are the topic of this thread, are said to become available to those who have put in that previous effort to develop wholesome inclinations of thought on top of an already wholesome non-doing of of what is considered misconduct. Couple that with seclusion, and the development of jhana, then those abilities may be there. Or they may not. I believe Sariputta had none.

What you are referring to when you talk about abilities on account of psychedelics are actually not what the suttas are describing at all.
Indeed you are quite right. And by scripture I can't contradict you at all.

Yet by the resolution of all paradoxes involving that Timeless Reality it is indeed all still possible.

I can only say that I can pay homage to Albert Hoffman, discover indeed of a path to the Infinite
Albert_Hofmann.jpg
Albert_Hofmann.jpg (72.69 KiB) Viewed 832 times
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein mentality ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
blightmaster
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Re: Do you believe in the real possibility of developing psychic powers (walking on water, crossing walls, levitating, e

Post by blightmaster »

Drugs is only to emulate tusita and not jhana. And since we're still human, drugs, especially high concentrated ones can have multiple side effects. Since the human brain and physiology isn't designed to sustain the effect for a prolonged time. Natural drugs, the plant based ones that aren't processed, on the other hand, are pretty harmless IMO.
you're not a shape shifter, you're a mindless ghoul in previous life and you will fall again • those who draw the sword die by the sword, but oh wait you're too lame to even use a sword
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SDC
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Re: Do you believe in the real possibility of developing psychic powers (walking on water, crossing walls, levitating, e

Post by SDC »

Cause_and_Effect wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:47 pm I can only say that I can pay homage to Albert Hoffman, discover indeed of a path to the Infinite
Enjoy your spiritual cocktails, C&E. 🍸
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Bundokji
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Re: Do you believe in the real possibility of developing psychic powers (walking on water, crossing walls, levitating, e

Post by Bundokji »

Cause_and_Effect wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:47 pm
SDC wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:06 pm
Cause_and_Effect wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 4:01 am Some see it as causing a type of 'jhana' like state of expanded consciousness which likewise can trigger well documented psychic phenomena and insight into the nature of reality.
If you don't think it does that then that's fine.
Those who do will utilize them accordingly and beneficially and judiciously in conjunction with meditation.

I always make clear, I neither recommend not dissuade anyone from studying more about the subject, hence why I only reference the best academic material on it.
The suttas do not describe jhana as being induced on account of chemistry, but do so on account of deliberate effort to develop a lifestyle of virtue, restraint and seclusion from sense pleasures and unwholesome states. Psychedelics are not the topic of this thread, and are a purely sensual experience.

Furthermore, the six great knowledges (psychic powers), which are the topic of this thread, are said to become available to those who have put in that previous effort to develop wholesome inclinations of thought on top of an already wholesome non-doing of of what is considered misconduct. Couple that with seclusion, and the development of jhana, then those abilities may be there. Or they may not. I believe Sariputta had none.

What you are referring to when you talk about abilities on account of psychedelics are actually not what the suttas are describing at all.
Indeed you are quite right. And by scripture I can't contradict you at all.

Yet by the resolution of all paradoxes involving that Timeless Reality it is indeed all still possible.

I can only say that I can pay homage to Albert Hoffman, discover indeed of a path to the Infinite

Albert_Hofmann.jpg
If we set aside the difference between the psychic powers or insights produced by following the traditional approach to meditation or psychedelics, i think "reverence" is integral to a genuine spiritual experience be it psychic powers or otherwise. Reverence has little to do with the "wow factor" associated with insights or psychic powers and more to do with utilizing the ills of life to cultivate holiness. This can be demonstrated by expecting the practitioner to revere his parents or his teachers despite their potentially flawed characters. Welcoming old age, sickness and death as messengers from beyond. Developing a sense of guilt and shame that cares little about alleviating suffering in the short run and preparing the mind for a long spiritual journey that could take many lifetimes.

It seems reverence is more aligned with the "slow and steady eventually wins the race" notion. It does not come as a surprise that the advancements humanity made in producing medicine to alleviate physical and mental suffering resulted in very little reverence, but a sense of entitlement instead. The appeal of a quick result is rooted in a belief in "substance" even when a certain experiment is designed to demonstrate the opposite. In the teachings, there is no explicit causal connection between Devadatta's ability to develop psychic powers after his first retreat and the subsequent misuse of them, but one can empathize.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Vivekananda
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Re: Do you believe in the real possibility of developing psychic powers (walking on water, crossing walls, levitating, e

Post by Vivekananda »

DIPA MA DEVELOPED her supernatural powers under Munindra’s tutelage and never demonstrated them except at his request. Such powers are achieved not through insight meditation, but through concentration practices, in which the mind enters a deep state of absorption known as a jhana. While she was doing jhana practice, Dipa Ma could enter any of the eight classical jhanic states at will and stay in it as long as she wanted. In the deeper jhanas, bodily processes can sometimes slow almost to a standstill, so it is not necessary to drink, eat, sleep, move, or urinate. Dipa Ma could resolve to enter a specific jhana and “wake up” or emerge from it at a predetermined time. On one occasion, she resolved to enter the eighth jhana and stay in it for three days, twenty- one hours, eight minutes, and three seconds. She emerged from the jhana exactly to the second that she had predetermined.



When she left Burma, Dipa Ma stopped practicing these powers, insisting that they involve ego and are therefore a hindrance to liberation. Munindra concurred. “These powers are not important,” he said. “Enlightenment is important. You need wisdom to use these powers. You don’t want to use these powers with ego, because they are not yours. You can’t use them and think you’re the one who is powerful. This is not wisdom.”



Jack Engler once asked Dipa Ma if she still possessed the extraordinary powers she had acquired years before while studying with Munindra. “No,” she said. “Could you get them back?” “Yes,” she said, “but it would take a long time.” “How long?” asked Jack, thinking she would reply in terms of months or years. “Oh, about three days,” she replied, “if I really practiced.”



There are said to be six higher powers: five mundane powers, accessed through the extraordinary degree of concentration in the fourth jhana, and one supramundane power, attainable only through insight practice and considered a mark of full enlightenment. The five mundane powers are found in all the shamanic and yogic traditions, and occur spontaneously to a lesser extent in some individuals.



They are said to be:



Supernatural powers: the ability to transform one of the four basic elements of the physical world (earth, air, fire, and water) into another.



Divine ear: the ability to hear sounds near and far, on earth and in other realms.



Divine eye: The ability to see into the future, to see things near and far, on earth and in other realms.



Knowledge of one’s former births and the previous births of others.



Knowledge of the states of mind of other beings; that is, the ability to “read” or know the minds of others.



According to Munindra, Dipa Ma demonstrated each of these powers to him. The following accounts are based on Munindra’s recollections. “You may not believe it,” he said, “but it’s true.”



...



Once Munindra was in his room when he noticed something unusual in the sky outside his window. He looked out and saw Dipa Ma in the air near the tops of the trees, grinning at him and playing in a room she had built in the sky. By changing the air element into the earth element, she had been able to create a structure in mid- air. Changing denser elements to air produced only slightly less astonishing occurrences.



Sometimes Dipa Ma and her sister Hema arrived for interviews with Munindra by spontaneously appearing in his room, and Dipa Ma occasionally left by walking through the closed door. If she was feeling especially playful, she might rise from her chair, go to the nearest wall, and walk right through it.



Dipa Ma learned to cook food by making the fire element come out of her hands. She could also change the earth element into the water element, which she demonstrated to Munindra by diving into a patch of ground and emerging with her clothes and hair wet. If she had to walk alone at night, Dipa Ma could duplicate her body, creating a companion for herself so that no one would bother her.



Dipa Ma’s abilities in this regard were once tested by a third party. Munindra knew a professor of Ancient Indian History at Magadh University who was skeptical about psychic powers. Munindra offered to prove the existence of such powers, and the two of them set up an experiment. The professor posted a trusted graduate student in a room where Dipa Ma was meditating to watch and make sure she didn’t leave the room. On the appointed day, the student verified that Dipa Ma never left her meditation posture, and yet, at the very same time, she appeared at the professor’s office ten miles away and had a conversation with him.
Source.

Read thai forest tradition, full of stories.
But even better try to experience deep Meditation, real passadhi is pretty powerful already.
Best wishes.
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SecretSage
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Re: Do you believe in the real possibility of developing psychic powers (walking on water, crossing walls, levitating, e

Post by SecretSage »

Yes I believe the powers of iddhi are really real from personal experiences but some others don't. Maybe because they've never had any real experiences or attainments.

It says
"Monks, whoever has missed out on the four bases of psychic power has missed out on the noble path to the complete ending of suffering. Whoever has undertaken the four bases of psychic power has undertaken the noble path to the complete ending of suffering. What four? It’s when a mendicant develops the basis of psychic power that has immersion due to enthusiasm … energy … mental development … inquiry, and active effort. Whoever has missed out on these four bases of psychic power has missed out on the noble path to the complete ending of suffering. Whoever has undertaken these four bases of psychic power has undertaken the noble path to the complete ending of suffering. " (SN 51.2)
Also says that all monks achieve enlightenment or arahantship or the ending of all mental fermentations (āsavakkhaya) by developing iddhi
"Monks, all the monks in the past … future … present who realize the undefiled freedom of heart and freedom by wisdom in this very life, and who live having realized it with their own insight due to the ending of defilements, do so by developing and cultivating the four bases of iddhi power. " (SN 51.7)
I interpret that as meaning a certain high level concentration ability is required to put to an end to all mental fermentations or achieve arahantship.

The majority of humans can't hold one thought uninterrupted in their mind for even more than 5 seconds just imagine how much easier achieving arahantship would be if you could easily hold one thought uninterrupted in your mind for 1 hour, 2 hours, or longer.

Also mentioned are the seven benefits of developing iddhi:
"What seven? They attain enlightenment early on in this very life. If not, they attain enlightenment at the time of death.
If not, with the ending of the five lower fetters, they’re extinguished between one life and the next … they’re extinguished upon landing … they’re extinguished without extra effort … they’re extinguished with extra effort … they head upstream, going to the Akaniṭṭha realm. Because of developing and cultivating these four bases of psychic power, these seven fruits and benefits can be expected.” (SN 51.26)
Concentration on enthusiasm, energy, mental development, and inquiry has lots of benefits...a side effect of that are the superhuman powers. It's really real and true and can be proven pretty easily scientifically but I doubt those with the power would be interested in proving it.
User13866
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Re: Do you believe in the real possibility of developing psychic powers (walking on water, crossing walls, levitating, e

Post by User13866 »

SecretSage wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 6:24 pm ...
:goodpost:
Welcome to the forum

I want to hear about powers more, for inspiration.
form
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Re: Do you believe in the real possibility of developing psychic powers (walking on water, crossing walls, levitating, e

Post by form »

Vivekananda wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:55 am
DIPA MA DEVELOPED her supernatural powers under Munindra’s tutelage and never demonstrated them except at his request. Such powers are achieved not through insight meditation, but through concentration practices, in which the mind enters a deep state of absorption known as a jhana. While she was doing jhana practice, Dipa Ma could enter any of the eight classical jhanic states at will and stay in it as long as she wanted. In the deeper jhanas, bodily processes can sometimes slow almost to a standstill, so it is not necessary to drink, eat, sleep, move, or urinate. Dipa Ma could resolve to enter a specific jhana and “wake up” or emerge from it at a predetermined time. On one occasion, she resolved to enter the eighth jhana and stay in it for three days, twenty- one hours, eight minutes, and three seconds. She emerged from the jhana exactly to the second that she had predetermined.



When she left Burma, Dipa Ma stopped practicing these powers, insisting that they involve ego and are therefore a hindrance to liberation. Munindra concurred. “These powers are not important,” he said. “Enlightenment is important. You need wisdom to use these powers. You don’t want to use these powers with ego, because they are not yours. You can’t use them and think you’re the one who is powerful. This is not wisdom.”



Jack Engler once asked Dipa Ma if she still possessed the extraordinary powers she had acquired years before while studying with Munindra. “No,” she said. “Could you get them back?” “Yes,” she said, “but it would take a long time.” “How long?” asked Jack, thinking she would reply in terms of months or years. “Oh, about three days,” she replied, “if I really practiced.”



There are said to be six higher powers: five mundane powers, accessed through the extraordinary degree of concentration in the fourth jhana, and one supramundane power, attainable only through insight practice and considered a mark of full enlightenment. The five mundane powers are found in all the shamanic and yogic traditions, and occur spontaneously to a lesser extent in some individuals.



They are said to be:



Supernatural powers: the ability to transform one of the four basic elements of the physical world (earth, air, fire, and water) into another.



Divine ear: the ability to hear sounds near and far, on earth and in other realms.



Divine eye: The ability to see into the future, to see things near and far, on earth and in other realms.



Knowledge of one’s former births and the previous births of others.



Knowledge of the states of mind of other beings; that is, the ability to “read” or know the minds of others.



According to Munindra, Dipa Ma demonstrated each of these powers to him. The following accounts are based on Munindra’s recollections. “You may not believe it,” he said, “but it’s true.”



...



Once Munindra was in his room when he noticed something unusual in the sky outside his window. He looked out and saw Dipa Ma in the air near the tops of the trees, grinning at him and playing in a room she had built in the sky. By changing the air element into the earth element, she had been able to create a structure in mid- air. Changing denser elements to air produced only slightly less astonishing occurrences.



Sometimes Dipa Ma and her sister Hema arrived for interviews with Munindra by spontaneously appearing in his room, and Dipa Ma occasionally left by walking through the closed door. If she was feeling especially playful, she might rise from her chair, go to the nearest wall, and walk right through it.



Dipa Ma learned to cook food by making the fire element come out of her hands. She could also change the earth element into the water element, which she demonstrated to Munindra by diving into a patch of ground and emerging with her clothes and hair wet. If she had to walk alone at night, Dipa Ma could duplicate her body, creating a companion for herself so that no one would bother her.



Dipa Ma’s abilities in this regard were once tested by a third party. Munindra knew a professor of Ancient Indian History at Magadh University who was skeptical about psychic powers. Munindra offered to prove the existence of such powers, and the two of them set up an experiment. The professor posted a trusted graduate student in a room where Dipa Ma was meditating to watch and make sure she didn’t leave the room. On the appointed day, the student verified that Dipa Ma never left her meditation posture, and yet, at the very same time, she appeared at the professor’s office ten miles away and had a conversation with him.
Source.

Read thai forest tradition, full of stories.
But even better try to experience deep Meditation, real passadhi is pretty powerful already.
Best wishes.
She should have done it on a higher scale with modern technology and very high profile witnesses. That will prove it once and for all.
SarathW
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Re: Do you believe in the real possibility of developing psychic powers (walking on water, crossing walls, levitating, e

Post by SarathW »

Have you seen insects walking on water?
Have you seen insects crossing the wall?
Have you seen birds flying?
Do you consider them magic?

Having said that I believe in the possibility of developing these psychic powers.
Just see some of the sportsmen and women perfecting one skill.
Then look at their personal life.
Is it worth it?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Do you believe in the real possibility of developing psychic powers (walking on water, crossing walls, levitating, e

Post by Mahabrahma »

If Mulan can use Qi to run up a wall so can you!
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
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Kusala
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Re: Do you believe in the real possibility of developing psychic powers (walking on water, crossing walls, levitating, e

Post by Kusala »

DeadBuddha wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:49 pm Hi

Apparently, some proponents of jhana lite deny the existence of psychic powers. And some proponents of visuddhimagga jhânas affirm the existence of these psychic powers, and claim that this proves that there is no jhana lite either.

What do you think of this?

May no being be reborn in an inferior destiny.
Here's an interesting post over at Dhammaloka...


Invulnerability in 4th Jhana
9th-December-2012, 01:15 AM
venerable Ajahn Brahmali,

On a retreat I attended, Ajahn Brahm told the story of a monk in Java, who went into the jungle. There he had an incredible deep meditation, which he described as "a marriage with a divine white light", an incredible experience. When he came out of his meditation, he was on the exact same spot, he noticed his surroundings were seriously altered: mud, broken trees, parts of earth and water were everywhere. When he asked afterwards, the people said: "you did't notice, that place has been struck by a giant flood for 8 days, it was completely under water and very stormy ...". So this monk was submerged for one week, in the upper stage of Samadhi, was in a state of breathlessness under water, in Jhana, ... and not a scratch ... This monk was afterwards known for his psychic powers. A friend of Ajahn Brahm, a rigorous scientis, declared that during a meditation session, she opened her eyes, and there was white light coming out of this monk's eyes, flowing into her, which was very healing and soothing ...

In the Sutta's there's also a story by a monk in fourth Jhana which get cremated, because people tought he was dead due to his non-breathing and stillness. The day afterwards this monk comes on alms round, smiling, in one piece, without even an eyebrow burnt ...

So my question, what is the explanation for this apparant invulnerability during the fourth Jhana ?
Where are there more essays on this (Bhikku Bodhi, ...) ?
How can it be explained scientifically ?

Thanks



https://bswa.org/forum/forum/discussion ... -4th-jhana
"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "
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Kusala
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Re: Do you believe in the real possibility of developing psychic powers (walking on water, crossing walls, levitating, e

Post by Kusala »

DeadBuddha wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 3:41 pmThank you
Here's another one...@51:17 - 59:00

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "
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Eko Care
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Re: Do you believe in the real possibility of developing psychic powers (walking on water, crossing walls, levitating, e

Post by Eko Care »

SecretSage wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 6:24 pm Yes I believe the powers of iddhi are really real from personal experiences ...
:smile:
SecretSage wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 6:24 pm It says
"Monks, whoever has missed out on the four bases of psychic power has missed out on the noble path to the complete ending of suffering. .. " (SN 51.2)
Also says that all monks achieve enlightenment or arahantship or the ending of all mental fermentations (āsavakkhaya) by developing iddhi
"Monks, all the monks in the past … future … present who realize the undefiled freedom of heart and freedom by wisdom in this very life, and who live having realized it with their own insight due to the ending of defilements, do so by developing and cultivating the four bases of iddhi power. " (SN 51.7)
I interpret that as meaning a certain high level concentration ability is required to put to an end to all mental fermentations or achieve arahantship.
There is the drawback of reading without the Commentary and Abhidhamma.

The word "Iddhi" in "Iddhipada" is interpreted as follows in many Sutta-commentaries.
Abhidhamma commentary of Iddhipada Vibhanga:
IDDHI:
1. "Iddhi means Ijjhati (succeeds) or Samijjhati or Nipphajjati (is produced)."
2. "Iddhi means the ways of success of beings."
IDDHIPADA:
1. According to the above first meaning, Iddhi is a Pada(portion/part/factors) itself. Iddhipada means "Parts/factors of iddhi".
2. According to the above second meaning, Iddhipada means The Padas of Iddhi. Pada means Patittha (Base) or Adhigama upaya (Way of attaining/achieving).

Pada means because it leads to upper-upper kinds of Iddhi.
Rajjasutta-commentary:
Iddhipadas means Ijjhanaka-kotthasa (factors of success)
Janavasabhasutta-commentary:
Iddhi means Ijjhana (succeeding) and Padas means Patitthana (bases/grounds)
Dictionaries:
Buddhadatta Ijjhati(idh + ya) thrives; succeeds; prospers.
PTS Ijjhati[Vedic ṛdhyate & ṛdhnoti; Gr. a)/lqomai to thrive, Lat. alo to nourish, also Vedic iḍā refreshment & P. iddhi power] to have a good result, turn out a blessing. succeed prosper, be successful S ;i.175 ("work effectively trsl.; = samijjhati mahapphalaṁ hoti C.); iv.303; Sn 461 485; J v.393; Pv ii.111; ii.913 (= samijjhati PvA 120) Pot. ijjhe Sn 458, 459; pret. ijjhittha (= Sk. ṛdhyiṣṭha Vv 206 (= nippajjittha mahapphalo ahuvattha VvA 103). <-> pp. iddha. See also aḍḍha2 & aḍḍhaka. Cp. sam˚.;
VRI Ijjhati To prosper, to succeed, to be accomplished
Critical Pali Ijjhati ijjhati, pr. 3 sg., [sa. ṛdhyate], to succeed, to
prosper; 'vuddhiyaṁ' Sadd 484,23; frequently explained
by samijjhati, e.g. Sadd 484,23; Ps III 320,12 (ad
M II 84,18); Spk III 101,21 (ad S IV 303,20); Mp V
19,14; Pv-a 120,7; furthermore by samijjhati nippa-
jjati Ud-a 304,31; samijjhati mahapphalaṁ hoti, Spk
I 260,5 (ad S I 175,22*); — .......

Buddhadatta Samijjhati(saṃ + idh + ya) succeeds; prospers; takes effect.
PTS Samijjhati[saṁ+ijjhati] to succeed, prosper, take effect D i.71; Sn 766 (cp. Nd1 2=labhati etc.); Bu ii.59 J i.14, 267; Pot. samijjheyyuṁ D i.71; aor. samijjhi J i.68; Fut. samijjhissati J i.15. -- pp. samiddha. <-> Caus. II. ˚ijjhāpeti to endow or invest with (acc.) J vi.484.
VRI Samijjhati To succeed, prosper, take effect. Of business prospering, a wish or prayer being fulfilled or realized

Buddhadatta Nipphajjati(ni + pad + ya) is produced; springs forth; results; happens.
VRI Nippajjati To be accomplished, effected, to succeed; to ripen
Ontheway
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Re: Do you believe in the real possibility of developing psychic powers (walking on water, crossing walls, levitating, e

Post by Ontheway »

Drugs don't create supernatural powers but only delusion/hallucinations.

Dealing illegal drugs can be a serious offence in some countries. Some likes death penalty, no excuse.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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