Dhammayut nikaya in Thailand

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
TRobinson465
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Location: United States

Re: Dhammayut nikaya in Thailand

Post by TRobinson465 »

SarathW wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:02 pm
Hence I think it is better for me to avoid those famous wealthy grand monasteries in order to stay away from the corruption of the Sangha.
In my opinion, It is not possible to find a place of curruptions-free Sangha anywhere in the world.
The way I understand Dhammaut Nikaya objectifies Nibbana and hence it is against the teaching of Tipitaka.
I agree with the first statement. "True" Buddhism doesn't really exist in this day and age. And I'm sick of these unfeasible purity tests.

As for the Nirvana thing. I don't think thats all of Dhammayuttika Nikaya actually, as it is merely an ordination lineage. For sure it includes Thai forest and some notable Dhammayut teachers outside of TFT as well, which probably already takes up like half of the 6% of temples in Thailand that are Dhammayuttika. So you are right. If you are a no selfer it's easier to find a Maha Nikaya place that carries your views on nibbana. But pretty much all Maha Nikaya temples other than ajahn chah lineage don't meet the Vinaya purity test of not touching money from what I've seen. :thinking:
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
SarathW
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Dhammayut nikaya in Thailand

Post by SarathW »

TRobinson465 wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:52 am
SarathW wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:02 pm
Hence I think it is better for me to avoid those famous wealthy grand monasteries in order to stay away from the corruption of the Sangha.
In my opinion, It is not possible to find a place of curruptions-free Sangha anywhere in the world.
The way I understand Dhammaut Nikaya objectifies Nibbana and hence it is against the teaching of Tipitaka.
I agree with the first statement. "True" Buddhism doesn't really exist in this day and age. And I'm sick of these unfeasible purity tests.

As for the Nirvana thing. I don't think thats all of Dhammayuttika Nikaya actually, as it is merely an ordination lineage. For sure it includes Thai forest and some notable Dhammayut teachers outside of TFT as well, which probably already takes up like half of the 6% of temples in Thailand that are Dhammayuttika. So you are right. If you are a no selfer it's easier to find a Maha Nikaya place that carries your views on nibbana. But pretty much all Maha Nikaya temples other than ajahn chah lineage don't meet the Vinaya purity test of not touching money from what I've seen. :thinking:
True" Buddhism doesn't really exist in this day
In my opinion that the true Buddhism does really exist today.
However it is impossible us to know that for sure that the only way to find it is to find an Arahant.
If we think that there is no true Buddhism exist then we are wasting our time here.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
TRobinson465
Posts: 1783
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: United States

Re: Dhammayut nikaya in Thailand

Post by TRobinson465 »

SarathW wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:11 am
TRobinson465 wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:52 am
SarathW wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:02 pm
In my opinion, It is not possible to find a place of curruptions-free Sangha anywhere in the world.
The way I understand Dhammaut Nikaya objectifies Nibbana and hence it is against the teaching of Tipitaka.
I agree with the first statement. "True" Buddhism doesn't really exist in this day and age. And I'm sick of these unfeasible purity tests.

As for the Nirvana thing. I don't think thats all of Dhammayuttika Nikaya actually, as it is merely an ordination lineage. For sure it includes Thai forest and some notable Dhammayut teachers outside of TFT as well, which probably already takes up like half of the 6% of temples in Thailand that are Dhammayuttika. So you are right. If you are a no selfer it's easier to find a Maha Nikaya place that carries your views on nibbana. But pretty much all Maha Nikaya temples other than ajahn chah lineage don't meet the Vinaya purity test of not touching money from what I've seen. :thinking:
True" Buddhism doesn't really exist in this day
In my opinion that the true Buddhism does really exist today.
However it is impossible us to know that for sure that the only way to find it is to find an Arahant.
If we think that there is no true Buddhism exist then we are wasting our time here.
I meant more like. No 100% true Buddhism. All forms of Buddhism today are right, and all of them are wrong. It's just a matter of degree. Something doesn't have to be 100% right to be fruitful. Even Mahayana Buddhists are not wasting their time practicing as they at least have the basic right views and Dana sila and Bhavana down for the most part.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
SarathW
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Dhammayut nikaya in Thailand

Post by SarathW »

TRobinson465 wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:33 am
SarathW wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:11 am
TRobinson465 wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:52 am

I agree with the first statement. "True" Buddhism doesn't really exist in this day and age. And I'm sick of these unfeasible purity tests.

As for the Nirvana thing. I don't think thats all of Dhammayuttika Nikaya actually, as it is merely an ordination lineage. For sure it includes Thai forest and some notable Dhammayut teachers outside of TFT as well, which probably already takes up like half of the 6% of temples in Thailand that are Dhammayuttika. So you are right. If you are a no selfer it's easier to find a Maha Nikaya place that carries your views on nibbana. But pretty much all Maha Nikaya temples other than ajahn chah lineage don't meet the Vinaya purity test of not touching money from what I've seen. :thinking:
Agree :D
True" Buddhism doesn't really exist in this day
In my opinion that the true Buddhism does really exist today.
However it is impossible us to know that for sure that the only way to find it is to find an Arahant.
If we think that there is no true Buddhism exist then we are wasting our time here.
I meant more like. No 100% true Buddhism. All forms of Buddhism today are right, and all of them are wrong. It's just a matter of degree. Something doesn't have to be 100% right to be fruitful. Even Mahayana Buddhists are not wasting their time practicing as they at least have the basic right views and Dana sila and Bhavana down for the most part.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
tamdrin
Posts: 616
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:34 pm
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand

Re: Dhammayut nikaya in Thailand

Post by tamdrin »

Learnersimple311 wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:26 am
Goofaholix wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:54 pm Are you fluent in Thai? if not that's going to severely restrict your options to learn the Dhamma accordingly to the suttas in Thailand, so you are better to focus on monasteries that can communicate in a language you can understand.

Monasteries under the Ajahn Mun (Dhammayut) or Ajahn Chah (Mahanikaya) lineages emphasis vinaya and mediation rather than sutta study, there are several that have english speakers and foreign lay people can practice there. I don't know about the corruption you mentioned but most branch monasteries will be totally seperate from that

I'm not aware of anywhere that foreigners can do sutta study, I'm not sure there is demand for that in Thailand.

Yes, I am on the way learning Thai language because should be staying there for most of the time after retirement.
I rejoice that you are learning Thai. Thai is a beautiful and amazing language with many roots in Sanskrit and Pali. I'm sure learning Thai will be a great blessing to your life. :anjali:
tamdrin
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Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand

Re: Dhammayut nikaya in Thailand

Post by tamdrin »

Learnersimple311 wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:57 am
santa100 wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:22 pm
Learnersimple311 wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:22 am Yes I agreed that as long as we have not attained arahantship, we still have defilements.
But it is still quite shocking that the system of the
headquarter of Dhammayut order allowed this to happen. Not just a small corruption, it is under civil investigation now.
Large established organizations whether civil or religious have their own agendas and priorities. If you think that gigantic religious corporations like Dhammayut place enlightenment at the top of their priority list, then you're gravely mistaken. Their highest priority is the stable, continuous, and profitable operation of their corporation. In some sense, one can't really blame them. Once an organization's grown beyond a certain size, the administration/business operation will have to take higher priority than whatever the original noble goal was, if one wants to maintain smooth operation of such large entity. Why do you think the Roman Catholic Church covered up all those widespread dirty sexual abuses of children by their priests for so long, some cases took decades to uncover?

It's time for them to put some effort to review their system regarding the vinaya and management system, otherwise no longer a conducive place for learning and practising the Dhamma . It is against the vinaya as well as the mission of Dhammayut order.
Why do you even think that finding a perfect monastery where every rule is scrupulously followed is the best thing? It sounds idealistic and not based on reality People have to learn through experience what is practical for their progress in the core practices of sila, samadhi, and panna.
tamdrin
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Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:34 pm
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand

Re: Dhammayut nikaya in Thailand

Post by tamdrin »

Learnersimple311 wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 6:07 pm I'm a foreigner lay person and have been planning to purchase a residence in Thailand as my 2nd home because some of my relatives are staying in Thailand.

Initially planned to purchase a residence in Bangkok near to the Dhammayut monasteries because from what I had learnt that the Dhammayut monasteries are living in a standard closer to the vinaya and the dhamma.
But recently after the death of the former abbot of Wat Bowonniwet Vihara, Somdet Phra Wannarat, the controversy arose over the issue of a close devotee friend of the former abbot, embezzled about 200 millions Baht from the account of the former abbot/the account of the Vihara under the only sole guardian of the former abbot?!
First of all, Dhammayut monks are not supposed to handle money and the former abbot of Wat Bowonniwet was handling the account of 200 million Bahts all by himself(not by a committee group)?!
I was very shocked that this corruption happened within Wat Bowonniwet and the revered former abbot late Somdet Phra Wannarat was involved.

Hence I think it is better for me to avoid those famous wealthy grand monasteries in order to stay away from the corruption of the Sangha.

It is less likely for me to consider too much on those Thai forest traditions under the lineage of Ajahn MUN or Ajahn Chah,as I have some brief understanding that they focus more on their own meditation experiences than the sutta study.


I'm still considering for a place to stay near to the Dhammayut monasteries where I can learn the Dhamma accordingly to the sutta, do merits by offering to the disciplined monks and helping to do the tasks in the monasteries, taking the precepts as a layperson and of course to meditate.

I'm not familiar with Thailand.
So any good recommendations for such
disciplined Dhammayut monasteries?
Bangkok, Chiang Mai or any elsewhere in Thailand will be taken into consideration.
I lived in Chiang Mai for 7 years. Do you want to be around other foreigners or just be around Thais? Most of the monasteries in the Chiang Mai area have little to no foreigners. I know several very very good places to practice in and around Chiang Mai. I also know of several good Kubar Ajahns.

It's unfortunate that Venerable Phra Ajahn temple but passed away some years ago. He has a monastery in Mae Taeng which is 40km north of Chiang Mai. He was really the top meditator and I was so impressed with his presence. I'm not sure who is leading his temple in his absence, but his most revered disciple, Ajahn Tong Daeng, has a temple also not too far from Mae Taeng. I forgot the name of the temple but could find out from a Thai friend if you're interested. There are also several secluded temples in Chiang Dao. Chiang Dao is my favorite spot in all of Thailand. It has a most majestic mountain peak that juts up from the center of the town. I was told it is the beginning of the range that leads all the way through Myanmar and to the Himalayas in Indias. The Ajahns have said that many hosts of devas live in and around this mountain. There are two temples that are good for meditation in Chiang Dao. One is the temple of Luang Por Sim. It is very peaceful up there and the weather is quite good compared to the hotter regions of Thailand.

If you want to know any more, just ask.
Dilantha
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:55 am

Re: Dhammayut nikaya in Thailand

Post by Dilantha »

tamdrin wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:45 pm
Learnersimple311 wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 6:07 pm I'm a foreigner lay person and have been planning to purchase a residence in Thailand as my 2nd home because some of my relatives are staying in Thailand.

Initially planned to purchase a residence in Bangkok near to the Dhammayut monasteries because from what I had learnt that the Dhammayut monasteries are living in a standard closer to the vinaya and the dhamma.
But recently after the death of the former abbot of Wat Bowonniwet Vihara, Somdet Phra Wannarat, the controversy arose over the issue of a close devotee friend of the former abbot, embezzled about 200 millions Baht from the account of the former abbot/the account of the Vihara under the only sole guardian of the former abbot?!
First of all, Dhammayut monks are not supposed to handle money and the former abbot of Wat Bowonniwet was handling the account of 200 million Bahts all by himself(not by a committee group)?!
I was very shocked that this corruption happened within Wat Bowonniwet and the revered former abbot late Somdet Phra Wannarat was involved.

Hence I think it is better for me to avoid those famous wealthy grand monasteries in order to stay away from the corruption of the Sangha.

It is less likely for me to consider too much on those Thai forest traditions under the lineage of Ajahn MUN or Ajahn Chah,as I have some brief understanding that they focus more on their own meditation experiences than the sutta study.


I'm still considering for a place to stay near to the Dhammayut monasteries where I can learn the Dhamma accordingly to the sutta, do merits by offering to the disciplined monks and helping to do the tasks in the monasteries, taking the precepts as a layperson and of course to meditate.

I'm not familiar with Thailand.
So any good recommendations for such
disciplined Dhammayut monasteries?
Bangkok, Chiang Mai or any elsewhere in Thailand will be taken into consideration.
I lived in Chiang Mai for 7 years. Do you want to be around other foreigners or just be around Thais? Most of the monasteries in the Chiang Mai area have little to no foreigners. I know several very very good places to practice in and around Chiang Mai. I also know of several good Kubar Ajahns.

It's unfortunate that Venerable Phra Ajahn temple but passed away some years ago. He has a monastery in Mae Taeng which is 40km north of Chiang Mai. He was really the top meditator and I was so impressed with his presence. I'm not sure who is leading his temple in his absence, but his most revered disciple, Ajahn Tong Daeng, has a temple also not too far from Mae Taeng. I forgot the name of the temple but could find out from a Thai friend if you're interested. There are also several secluded temples in Chiang Dao. Chiang Dao is my favorite spot in all of Thailand. It has a most majestic mountain peak that juts up from the center of the town. I was told it is the beginning of the range that leads all the way through Myanmar and to the Himalayas in Indias. The Ajahns have said that many hosts of devas live in and around this mountain. There are two temples that are good for meditation in Chiang Dao. One is the temple of Luang Por Sim. It is very peaceful up there and the weather is quite good compared to the hotter regions of Thailand.

If you want to know any more, just ask.
Hi tamdrin,


Thank you very much for your inputs in to this forum,its very valuable for people like us. I am from Sri Lanka.46 yrs old . me and my wife was planning to go to Myanmar (we used to go there before) and ordain. But due to the troubles in Myanmar... our hopes were destroyed... I am thinking for place we both could stay in thailand.. place with good vinaya and meditation.. plese let us know a place where both male and females accepted...

thank you very much
tamdrin
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Re: Dhammayut nikaya in Thailand

Post by tamdrin »

I only really know Chiang Mai and the surrounding area. There are many temples but you should probably visit and find the best fit first. You have to see which teacher and tradition you connect with. If you decide you want to know more about options in Chiang Mai, you can ask me and I will try to be of assistance.
tamdrin
Posts: 616
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:34 pm
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand

Re: Dhammayut nikaya in Thailand

Post by tamdrin »

The temples I know in Chiang Mai will probably accept both male and female. But they are not set up for foreigners... So it will be a little difficult without knowing Thai language and the culture a little bit. The good thing about Chiang Mai is the weather is a little cooler than the rest of Thailand and there are many cave temples which are good places to meditate.
Dilantha
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:55 am

Re: Dhammayut nikaya in Thailand

Post by Dilantha »

tamdrin wrote: Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:45 pm I only really know Chiang Mai and the surrounding area. There are many temples but you should probably visit and find the best fit first. You have to see which teacher and tradition you connect with. If you decide you want to know more about options in Chiang Mai, you can ask me and I will try to be of assistance.
Thank you very much for the info.. I decided to learn thai.. soo happy learning ... please let me know the options in Chiang Mai.. where both male and female yogis can stay longer. And also a place where I could ordain (probably in future)

Much kusala to you..

TC
tamdrin
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Re: Dhammayut nikaya in Thailand

Post by tamdrin »

There is a temple in Mae Hong Song called Wat Ba Tam Wua. You can do a meditation retreat there. I'm not sure about ordaining.

This is their website:
https://www.wattamwua.com

There is also a temple called Wat Santitham in Chiang Mai city. There is an experienced ajahn there called Luang Por C Nawn. He speaks some English, you could talk to him about your aspirations and ask for his recommendations. His temple is also home to a beautiful museum of bone and hair relics from accomplished Thai forest tradition teachers. He just built a stupa which houses a bone relic of the Buddha.

There are several temples around Chiang Mai, some near Mae Rim/Mae Taeng. There is an ajahn named Ajahn Tong Daeng. He is the foremost disciple of the late LP Plien. You could seek out his temple, I don't know the exact address, although I've been there. You could ask monks at Wat Santitham how to get here.

70km north of Chiang Mai is Chiang Dao. There is a temple past Chiang Dao cave, it is a temple that was founded by Luang Por Sim. It is peaceful and secluded. Very conducive for meditation. This is a link about this ajahn and his temple, Wat Tam Pha Phong:

https://dhammayut-amulet.blogspot.com/2 ... hapom.html

They will let you stay and practice here, there are very few foreigners.

In general I didn't meet many ordained foreigners in the Chiang Mai region. It seems many of them stay in Issan (northeastern Thailand)

Ajahn Anan is an accomplished master and has a temple in Rayong (South of Bangkok)

Chok Dee (good luck) in your search.
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mikenz66
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Re: Dhammayut nikaya in Thailand

Post by mikenz66 »

tamdrin wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:37 pm In general I didn't meet many ordained foreigners in the Chiang Mai region. It seems many of them stay in Issan (northeastern Thailand)
Ven Dhammanando memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=56 has lived in various places around Chiang Mai. I believe he's currently in Lamphun. I caught up with him a few years ago when he was spending the winter Wat Mae Phaeng, north of Chiang Mai.
viewtopic.php?p=369695#p369695
He tends to live in small places, but is very knowledgeable about all aspects of monastic life in Thailand, having been ordained in both Nikayas. Unfortunately he seems to have stopped posting here, but he may be reachable on Facebook.

:heart:
Mike
Dilantha
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:55 am

Re: Dhammayut nikaya in Thailand

Post by Dilantha »

tamdrin wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:37 pm There is a temple in Mae Hong Song called Wat Ba Tam Wua. You can do a meditation retreat there. I'm not sure about ordaining.

Chok Dee (good luck) in your search.
mikenz66 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:07 pm
:heart:
Mike

Thank you very much for the information .

Many kusala to both of you

:heart:
rybka3
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Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:49 am

Re: Dhammayut nikaya in Thailand

Post by rybka3 »

tamdrin wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:45 pm
Learnersimple311 wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 6:07 pm I'm a foreigner lay person and have been planning to purchase a residence in Thailand as my 2nd home because some of my relatives are staying in Thailand.

Initially planned to purchase a residence in Bangkok near to the Dhammayut monasteries because from what I had learnt that the Dhammayut monasteries are living in a standard closer to the vinaya and the dhamma.
But recently after the death of the former abbot of Wat Bowonniwet Vihara, Somdet Phra Wannarat, the controversy arose over the issue of a close devotee friend of the former abbot, embezzled about 200 millions Baht from the account of the former abbot/the account of the Vihara under the only sole guardian of the former abbot?!
First of all, Dhammayut monks are not supposed to handle money and the former abbot of Wat Bowonniwet was handling the account of 200 million Bahts all by himself(not by a committee group)?!
I was very shocked that this corruption happened within Wat Bowonniwet and the revered former abbot late Somdet Phra Wannarat was involved.

Hence I think it is better for me to avoid those famous wealthy grand monasteries in order to stay away from the corruption of the Sangha.

It is less likely for me to consider too much on those Thai forest traditions under the lineage of Ajahn MUN or Ajahn Chah,as I have some brief understanding that they focus more on their own meditation experiences than the sutta study.


I'm still considering for a place to stay near to the Dhammayut monasteries where I can learn the Dhamma accordingly to the sutta, do merits by offering to the disciplined monks and helping to do the tasks in the monasteries, taking the precepts as a layperson and of course to meditate.

I'm not familiar with Thailand.
So any good recommendations for such
disciplined Dhammayut monasteries?
Bangkok, Chiang Mai or any elsewhere in Thailand will be taken into consideration.
I lived in Chiang Mai for 7 years. Do you want to be around other foreigners or just be around Thais? Most of the monasteries in the Chiang Mai area have little to no foreigners. I know several very very good places to practice in and around Chiang Mai. I also know of several good Kubar Ajahns.

It's unfortunate that Venerable Phra Ajahn Plien passed away some years ago. He has a monastery in Mae Taeng which is 40km north of Chiang Mai. He was really the top meditator and I was so impressed with his presence. I'm not sure who is leading his temple in his absence, but his most revered disciple, Ajahn Tong Daeng, has a temple also not too far from Mae Taeng. I forgot the name of the temple but could find out from a Thai friend if you're interested. There are also several secluded temples in Chiang Dao. Chiang Dao is my favorite spot in all of Thailand. It has a most majestic mountain peak that juts up from the center of the town. I was told it is the beginning of the range that leads all the way through Myanmar and to the Himalayas in Indias. The Ajahns have said that many hosts of devas live in and around this mountain. There are two temples that are good for meditation in Chiang Dao. One is the temple of Luang Por Sim. It is very peaceful up there and the weather is quite good compared to the hotter regions of Thailand.

If you want to know any more, just ask.
Hi, I'm interested in the Chiang Dao area. Can you please say what is the temple other than Luang Por Sim's one? Thanks
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