Anapanasatisutta

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Beginer
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Anapanasatisutta

Post by Beginer »

:candle:
Dear all,
In anapanasatisutta, it is mentioned only positive feelings like rapture ,joy..etc. Why negative feelings like anger,fear not mentioned in that sutta. Because during practice anything can come out.
Any one please clarify
Thank you all

Beginer :thanks:
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Anapanasatisutta

Post by Ceisiwr »

Beginer wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:37 pm :candle:
Dear all,
In anapanasatisutta, it is mentioned only positive feelings like rapture ,joy..etc. Why negative feelings like anger,fear not mentioned in that sutta. Because during practice anything can come out.
Any one please clarify
Thank you all

Beginer :thanks:
The rapture and ease (sukha) come about through the diminishing of the hindrances.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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bodom
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Re: Anapanasatisutta

Post by bodom »

Beginer wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:37 pm :candle:
Dear all,
In anapanasatisutta, it is mentioned only positive feelings like rapture ,joy..etc. Why negative feelings like anger,fear not mentioned in that sutta. Because during practice anything can come out.
Any one please clarify
Thank you all

Beginer :thanks:
The 16 steps are dealing with qualities that are to be developed while mindully breathing in and out.

:namaste:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
SarathW
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Re: Anapanasatisutta

Post by SarathW »

putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world
The above feelings and mental qualities are the negative factors you contemplate.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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DNS
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Re: Anapanasatisutta

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Welcome to DW!

Enam
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Re: Anapanasatisutta

Post by Enam »

Beginer wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:37 pm Because during practice anything can come out.
When the hindrances emerge, the practice of anapanasati ceases. That is why they are called hindrances. The anapanasati sutta says every stage is practiced with knowing of each in-breath & each out-breath. Therefore, the only feelings (vedana) in the anapanasati sutta are the pleasant feelings of rapture & happiness, which manifest after continuous knowing & calming of each in-breath & each out-breath. The anapanasati sutta says:
I do not speak, bhikkhus, of ānāpānassati for one who looses sati/mindfulness, for one who is not sampajāna/clearly-comprehending.

http://www.buddha-vacana.org/sutta/majjhima/mn118.html
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Pondera
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Re: Anapanasatisutta

Post by Pondera »

Enam wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:56 am
Beginer wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:37 pm Because during practice anything can come out.
When the hindrances emerge, the practice of anapanasati ceases. That is why they are called hindrances. The anapanasati sutta says every stage is practiced with knowing of each in-breath & each out-breath. Therefore, the only feelings (vedana) in the anapanasati sutta are the pleasant feelings of rapture & happiness, which manifest after continuous knowing & calming of each in-breath & each out-breath. The anapanasati sutta says:
I do not speak, bhikkhus, of ānāpānassati for one who looses sati/mindfulness, for one who is not sampajāna/clearly-comprehending.

http://www.buddha-vacana.org/sutta/majjhima/mn118.html
Mindfulness is necessary for “placing the mind and keeping it there” (Vitakka and vicara). Breathe all you like … if you cannot place your mind outside of your self onto a meditation object, then you will never penetrate beyond what stops you from feeling rapture and bliss.
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
Enam
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Re: Anapanasatisutta

Post by Enam »

Pondera wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:01 am Mindfulness is necessary for “placing the mind and keeping it there” (Vitakka and vicara).
Mindfulness is necessary to keep the mind detached, according to the Anapanasati Sutta:
Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu develops the sati [mindfulness] sambojjhaṅga founded on viveka [solitude from hindrances], founded on virāga [dispassion], founded on nirodha [cessation of defilements], resulting in detachment.

http://www.buddha-vacana.org/sutta/majjhima/mn118.html
Mindfulness is necessary to keep the mind free from longing & dejection, according to the Anapanasati Sutta:
On that occasion, a bhikkhu dwells... satimā [mindful], having given up abhijjhā [longing]-domanassa [dejection] towards the world.

http://www.buddha-vacana.org/sutta/majjhima/mn118.html
Using mindfulness for placing the mind and keeping it there is Patanjali Hindu Yogic meditation. The Anapanasati Sutta says, as already quoted, mindfulness matures as detachment or letting go. Placing the mind and keeping it there is not detachment. 'Placing the mind' and 'keeping it there' sounds like a unique creative novel translation. :smile:
Beginer
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Re: Anapanasatisutta

Post by Beginer »

Thank you all, Request more suggestions from all
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Pondera
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Re: Anapanasatisutta

Post by Pondera »

Enam wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:25 am
Pondera wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:01 am Mindfulness is necessary for “placing the mind and keeping it there” (Vitakka and vicara).
Mindfulness is necessary to keep the mind detached, according to the Anapanasati Sutta, which does not mention vitakka & vicara.
Detached from what?

And no, it doesn’t not mention it - but it does mention rapture and bliss - which - if we assume that anapanasati allows one to (at the least) surmount the first two jhanas - then Vitakka and vicara are implicit (in that it is most likely that one will experience the “rapture” and “bliss” of the *first jhana* while practicing in and out breath).


Mindfulness is necessary to keep the mind free from longing & dejection, according to the Anapanasati Sutta, which does not mention vitakka & vicara.
Dejection? What do you mean?

And, again, Vitakka and vicara are implicit wherever rapture and bliss are experienced (unless you know how to skip right into second jhana by appreciating the breathe.).

Truth be told, the schema of anapanasati is inclusive of all four jhanas. The parallels between the four sections of anapanasati measure up the the four foundations of mindfulness (the body, feelings, the mind, and dhammas).
Using mindfulness for placing the mind and keeping it there is Patanjali Hindu Yogic meditation. The Anapanasati Sutta says, as already quoted, mindfulness matures as detachment or letting go. Placing the mind and keeping it there is not detachment. :smile:
The goal of detachment comes in the fourth tetrad. Detachment is not the goal of calming and gladdening the body and mind. Nor is it the goal of experiencing rapture and bliss.

I don’t recall anapanasati sutta going into detail about the role of mindfulness being a state of matured detachment. I’ll have to read it again.

And “Pantanjali Hindu Yogic meditation” means nothing to me. The stock phrase:

“He enters and remains in the bliss and rapture born of seclusion which is accompanied by Vitakka and vicara …”

That means something to me.
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
Beginer
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Re: Anapanasatisutta

Post by Beginer »

Thank you all :anjali:
Dhammapardon1
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Re: Anapanasatisutta

Post by Dhammapardon1 »

Beginer wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:37 pm In anapanasatisutta, it is mentioned only positive feelings like rapture ,joy..etc. Why negative feelings like anger,fear not mentioned in that sutta. Because during practice anything can come out.
Any one please clarify
I think because Anapanasati Sutta is like MN-118 and not MN-18 so maybe it's kind of some steps after the beginning of the practice. If it doesn't say about negative feelings maybe one has already made them go away by that point in practice? Just my opinion.
SarathW
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Re: Anapanasatisutta

Post by SarathW »

Dhammapardon1 wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:45 am
Beginer wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:37 pm In anapanasatisutta, it is mentioned only positive feelings like rapture ,joy..etc. Why negative feelings like anger,fear not mentioned in that sutta. Because during practice anything can come out.
Any one please clarify
I think because Anapanasati Sutta is like MN-118 and not MN-18 so maybe it's kind of some steps after the beginning of the practice. If it doesn't say about negative feelings maybe one has already made them go away by that point in practice? Just my opinion.
I got OP's question clear now.
Actually, rapture, joy, etc come after the elimination of negative feelings.
“Mendicants, the four kinds of mindfulness meditation are the path to convergence. They are in order to purify sentient beings, to get past sorrow and crying, to make an end of pain and sadness, to end the cycle of suffering, and to realize extinguishment.
https://suttacentral.net/mn10/en/sujato ... ript=latin
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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