Help with understanding Jhana from EBT

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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SammaSambuddhassa
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Help with understanding Jhana from EBT

Post by SammaSambuddhassa »

Hello, all,
This is my first interaction with this community, from which I have learned a lot the last couple of months.

Recently (last 2-3 months) I've been focusing on trying to understand sensuality. For this, Ajahn Nyanamoli (from Hillside Hermitage) has been crucial; he is someone who doesn't make concessions to kāmacchanda (which I find is pretty common in buddhist teachings, even from Ajahns, probably because in the west we don't want to know anything about sensuality being an obstacle to spiritual progress). Nyanamoli really puts sensuality at the center of his teaching, and you get the impression that without 8 precepts and sense restraint it is impossible to make progress.

However, since current times make it so hard to give up on sensuality (what Nyanamoli calls the "pressure", that is most evident with sense restraint, is unbearable due to how deeply rooted sensuality is nowadays), I have turned my attention towards Jhana. What I get is that Jhana is especially relevant today if you want to try to give up on sensuality. This is because, without any alternative to sensuality, life would be pretty miserable (sensuality is all we Puthujjanas have). So I want to have a correct understanding of it.

Here is my current understanding of Jhana in EBTs. Following a distinction I've seen in some places in this forums, I contrast Sutta Jhana vs Concentration Jhana:

Concentration Jhana is what was available at the time of Lord Buddha. He mastered all of them while still an unenlightened bodhisatta. Concentration Jhana is what you find in Visuddhimagga. Basically the idea is a forceful subdue of the hindrances by narrowing your attention to an object. From here is where we find Samadhi translated as concentration and Ekaggata as one-pointedness, in the narrowest possible sense. The problem here is that the hindrances are not overcome by understanding, but by suppressing them forcefully. You get your Jhanas, but in a sense they are "artificial Jhanas", since when you get out of your cushion the hindrances are strong as ever, so these Jhanas won't impact your daily life.

Sutta Jhana is Lord Buddha's version of Jhanas. It is his own twist. It is the same experience as the Concentration Jhanas, but the way you get there is radically different: instead of a forceful suppression of hindrances, the idea is that if you work on these by investigation and understanding, Jhanas will come naturally. In this way, you could say these are "natural Jhanas". That's why Nyanamoli has videos with titles like "Jhana is a State of Being", "How Virtue Leads to Effortless Samadhi", "Permanent Jhana Through Perception of Dispassion", "Jhana is a Lifestyle", etc.

I am just starting my way into the Suttas, but one place I find evidence for this is MN107, which is the start of Nyanamoli's recent book "The Only Way To Jhana". Here he have that, only after lots of things have been established with respect to virtue and sense restraint (first 7 instructions), does the Buddha give instruction 8, where he also explicitly mentions that hindrances should have already been abandoned (so their abandonment is not done by concentration).

8) having abandoned these five hindrances—imperfections of
mind that weaken discernment—then, withdrawn from sensual
desire, withdrawn from unskilful qualities, he enters and remains
in the first comprehension: joy and pleasure born of withdrawal,
with thinking and pondering ... the second comprehension, the third
comprehension, the fourth comprehension: purity of equanimity and
recollection, neither pleasure nor pain.


Is this understanding broadly correct? what would you add/change? what other Suttas could justify this understanding?

Any input from people who have also devoted some time in trying to understand Jhana is greatly appreciated.

:namaste:
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Pondera
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Re: Help with understanding Jhana from EBT

Post by Pondera »

The sutta quoted by Ajahn Nyanamoli in his first entry if his book is an adequate way to start.

1) practice the precepts
2) restrain the senses
3) be moderate in eating
4) devote your self to wakefulness
5) develop the 7th factor of the eightfold path - mindfulness

On this basis you have “a lot on your plate”. Just practicing the precepts alone is going to be a difficult task.

Keep in mind that monks don’t masturbate. Which means, likely, that if you’re addicted ti porn and such, you’ve got an uphill climb already.

Being moderate in eating is another “addiction” to be overcome. I find, when eating moderately, my motivation to do things increases. Mainly because I’m hungry and hunger is the great motivator.

Wakefulness is the equivalent of the Buddha’s antidepressant. Consider how many people in the world are tired all the time. Imagine having energy all the time. It would be as if your were manic depressive without the depression. Ie. harness your inner “light”.

So, I wouldn’t worry about “what” jhana is. If I were you, and I can tell you’re relatively young, I would go on a retreat. I would place my self in an environment where I would be under social pressure to abstain from immorality, to moderate my eating, to practice wakefulness.

Virtue is truly the foundation of spiritual awakening.

Mudita - :anjali:
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
SarathW
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Re: Help with understanding Jhana from EBT

Post by SarathW »

:goodpost:
But can you explain this bit more please?
Being moderate in eating is another “addiction” to be overcome.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Pondera
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Re: Help with understanding Jhana from EBT

Post by Pondera »

SarathW wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:32 am :goodpost:
But can you explain this bit more please?
Being moderate in eating is another “addiction” to be overcome.
Sorry. I mean that the “addiction” is the addiction to food. Becoming a moderate eater involves breaking one’s “addiction” to food. I did not mean that Moderate eating itself is an addiction.

:anjali:
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
SammaSambuddhassa
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Re: Help with understanding Jhana from EBT

Post by SammaSambuddhassa »

Pondera wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:16 am The sutta quoted by Ajahn Nyanamoli in his first entry if his book is an adequate way to start.

1) practice the precepts
2) restrain the senses
3) be moderate in eating
4) devote your self to wakefulness
5) develop the 7th factor of the eightfold path - mindfulness

On this basis you have “a lot on your plate”. Just practicing the precepts alone is going to be a difficult task.

Keep in mind that monks don’t masturbate. Which means, likely, that if you’re addicted ti porn and such, you’ve got an uphill climb already.

Being moderate in eating is another “addiction” to be overcome. I find, when eating moderately, my motivation to do things increases. Mainly because I’m hungry and hunger is the great motivator.

Wakefulness is the equivalent of the Buddha’s antidepressant. Consider how many people in the world are tired all the time. Imagine having energy all the time. It would be as if your were manic depressive without the depression. Ie. harness your inner “light”.

So, I wouldn’t worry about “what” jhana is. If I were you, and I can tell you’re relatively young, I would go on a retreat. I would place my self in an environment where I would be under social pressure to abstain from immorality, to moderate my eating, to practice wakefulness.

Virtue is truly the foundation of spiritual awakening.

Mudita - :anjali:
Thank you for the input :)

Interestingly, I see that almost no modern buddhist circles put enough emphasis to virtue and sense restraint (at least when teaching to lay people). I am grateful that Ajahn Nyanamoli makes it very clear that this is the foundation of the path.
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Pondera
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Re: Help with understanding Jhana from EBT

Post by Pondera »

SammaSambuddhassa wrote: Wed May 03, 2023 11:37 pm
Pondera wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:16 am The sutta quoted by Ajahn Nyanamoli in his first entry if his book is an adequate way to start.

1) practice the precepts
2) restrain the senses
3) be moderate in eating
4) devote your self to wakefulness
5) develop the 7th factor of the eightfold path - mindfulness

On this basis you have “a lot on your plate”. Just practicing the precepts alone is going to be a difficult task.

Keep in mind that monks don’t masturbate. Which means, likely, that if you’re addicted ti porn and such, you’ve got an uphill climb already.

Being moderate in eating is another “addiction” to be overcome. I find, when eating moderately, my motivation to do things increases. Mainly because I’m hungry and hunger is the great motivator.

Wakefulness is the equivalent of the Buddha’s antidepressant. Consider how many people in the world are tired all the time. Imagine having energy all the time. It would be as if your were manic depressive without the depression. Ie. harness your inner “light”.

So, I wouldn’t worry about “what” jhana is. If I were you, and I can tell you’re relatively young, I would go on a retreat. I would place my self in an environment where I would be under social pressure to abstain from immorality, to moderate my eating, to practice wakefulness.

Virtue is truly the foundation of spiritual awakening.

Mudita - :anjali:
Thank you for the input :)

Interestingly, I see that almost no modern buddhist circles put enough emphasis to virtue and sense restraint (at least when teaching to lay people). I am grateful that Ajahn Nyanamoli makes it very clear that this is the foundation of the path.
I’m almost finished his new book on jhana. It’s been the kind of “insight bhavana” I’ve been lacking for a while which I needed to hear!
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
SammaSambuddhassa
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:45 pm

Re: Help with understanding Jhana from EBT

Post by SammaSambuddhassa »

Pondera wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 12:48 pm I’m almost finished his new book on jhana. It’s been the kind of “insight bhavana” I’ve been lacking for a while which I needed to hear!
Nice! Would be lovely to read what you've learned from it (reading it is in my TODO, although I've skimmed through it).

My main investigation right now is in the understanding of sensuality. I've found the attached video from Ajahn Nyanamoli the most insightful reflection yet. It is a phenomenological analysis of sensuality, and the crucial point that it reveals is that pleasure is invariably intertwined with pain; they are the 2 sides of the same coin that occur in every instance of sensuality. Also, pain is the more general or fundamental of the 2. So every prospect of pleasure (I am fantasizing and delighting in the possibility of eating something delicious) is felt pleasurable because it (presumably) offers an opportunity to escape from the underlying pain. But of course it is not an escape from the pain; it is a strategy than only reinforces the whole vicious circle.

This is the type of analysis that, at least for me, changes it all, as it makes it possible to understand the dangers of sensuality and gives sense to the whole sense restraint thing.

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