Mind is not something that Cognizes.

Discussion of Abhidhamma and related Commentaries
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Eko Care
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Mind is not something that Cognizes.

Post by Eko Care »

According to a sub-commentary, generally the meditators recognize the mind or other Nama-dhammas, as things that cognize.

The definition of Nama in the Commentary also is "Bending towards the object".
What does bend? Who does bend? Nothing.
The mere "Bending towards the object" is Nama.
What is the meaning of that?
The act of "Cognizing and object" ("seeing an object") itself is the Nama.

In the conventional world, if we said "going to somewhere", then the others ask back "who goes"?
This is conventionally a normal question and a valid question.

But in reality, there is no "Cognizer" other than the "Cognizing" itself.
The Convention "Cognizer" means the mere "Cognizing" itself.
Extracted from a Sinhala Abhidhamma lesson from IIT.
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confusedlayman
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Re: Mind is not something that Cognizes.

Post by confusedlayman »

Eko Care wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 4:13 pm
According to a sub-commentary, generally the meditators recognize the mind or other Nama-dhammas, as things that cognize.

The definition of Nama in the Commentary also is "Bending towards the object".
What does bend? Who does bend? Nothing.
The mere "Bending towards the object" is Nama.
What is the meaning of that?
The act of "Cognizing and object" ("seeing an object") itself is the Nama.

In the conventional world, if we said "going to somewhere", then the others ask back "who goes"?
This is conventionally a normal question and a valid question.

But in reality, there is no "Cognizer" other than the "Cognizing" itself.
The Convention "Cognizer" means the mere "Cognizing" itself.
Extracted from a Sinhala Abhidhamma lesson from IIT.
only people with samadhi can know this in personal experience. everything is a priocess
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Eko Care
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Re: Mind is not something that Cognizes.

Post by Eko Care »

Intellectual understanding is needed in the beginning.

Sammaditthi, the first factor of the path, is the correct view/understanding about the truths.

The first noble truth is the Dukkha, which is five khandas that constitute the Nama and Rupa.

One has to understand what the characteristics of Nama and Rupa are.
pudai
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Re: Mind is not something that Cognizes.

Post by pudai »

Ouch that finger has name attached and a bird wont stop perching on it.

The way the commentator describes cognition of an object is like tourette syndrome...

The old example is a lute... one can say it both does and does not exist simultaneously. How is this so? Is the lute the strings? No the strings are the strings, is the lute the neck the body? No the neck is the neck the body the body. Is the lute the pegs? No the pegs are the pegs. The same could be done down to the minutest detail with string not existing, neck and body not existing, peg not existing the same way lute does not exist.

How can anything exist in and of itself as body in body like lute? When someone isn't screaming lute at it is when... that being the case we can determine if it's breath is long or short or just call it music.

Mind is perception it in it's purest form perceives everything in the entire universe as it is occurring all at once. Stopping to name all of that is conditioning... Otherwise it just is what it is without the taint of self carrying the corpse(name) that other has given to them as a burden. Such a thing is as an ignorant yak with countless things on it's back not even knowing that stuff is there.

Speaking of birds why didn't Gautama listen to what they said? They only repeat the gas of the last apprehension heard before the air hits the egg and closes and then that bird imprints on it as it's own breath and when heard outside of the egg with it's senses and entire form? It won't stop following that sound as if was an actual breath to be heard until it dies not knowing that that sound was all it was ever composed of and what animated it outside of the egg. In such a thing or process of birth to death he said was trackless... Such teachings even before him gave rise to the gandhabhas and the garudhas.

Try listening to the first bird you hear all day not in a cage... Here is what you will find; All it is trying to do is hear it's own echo and nothing more and until it hears that echo; It will not change it's tune... in such a manner; Of that echo it's the wall of the egg and changing the tune like the phoenix that gives it a rebirth. What confuses it is when you do do not keep sounding it anymore than you did when it's tune changed trying to find the echo and on hearing it rebirth like a phoenix too.

However bird like lute doesn't exist... grasping that as knowing comes from truth or suffering to know it as direct experience knowing that name has never made anything exist... Equanimity whether anyone likes it or not;removing skandha realizing it isnt a self is the job adding it to other things sort of defeats the purpose and becomes an excuse to have one later as if clinging to anything is the cause of anything other than clinging being the only thing going on between those two things.

Eye and eye consciousness sees pleasant unpleasant or neutral only due to such clinging otherwise it is unbound and free.

Mouth on a bird is too many things all at once.

Unlike ears on a lute...

Whats funny is I have had the same problem of round after round with the usual suspects... like preaching compassion and then discriminating as if to say didn't you hear my preaching on compassion where is your mercy when called out on not being compassionate towards them. What I know of them is; It is say one thing and do another trying to please all people while only pleasing the self the entire time.

That bhavacakra tail may be endless; But ignorance isn't. :)
Om sa va ha!
The six senses accommodate; All the factors of existence... The All.
Apart from; The All... Nothing exists.
The senses are empty of a self & what belongs to a self.
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Eko Care
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Re: Mind is not something that Cognizes.

Post by Eko Care »

Mind is not something that Cognizes.
Mind is the Cognizing itself.
confusedlayman wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 4:29 pm only people with samadhi can know this in personal experience. everything is a priocess
Before gaining meditative experience, one is required to gain intellectual theoritical understanding that there is no person but mental phenomena and material phenomena.
pegembara
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Re: Mind is not something that Cognizes.

Post by pegembara »

Eko Care wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2024 6:29 pm Mind is not something that Cognizes.
Mind is the Cognizing itself.
confusedlayman wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 4:29 pm only people with samadhi can know this in personal experience. everything is a priocess
Before gaining meditative experience, one is required to gain intellectual theoritical understanding that there is no person but mental phenomena and material phenomena.

The mind is to be developed.
Pabhassara Sutta: Luminous

"Luminous, monks, is the mind.[1] And it is defiled by incoming defilements." {I,v,9}

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements." {I,v,10}

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is defiled by incoming defilements. The uninstructed run-of-the-mill person doesn't discern that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person — there is no development of the mind." {I,vi,1}

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements. The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones discerns that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones — there is development of the mind."

The Anattalakkhana, Phena, Bhara and Satta suttas clearly state that body and mind (pancakhandhas) are not to be clung to.
Satta Sutta: A Being

"In the same way, Radha, you too should smash, scatter, & demolish form, and make it unfit for play. Practice for the ending of craving for form.

"You should smash, scatter, & demolish feeling, and make it unfit for play. Practice for the ending of craving for feeling.

"You should smash, scatter, & demolish perception, and make it unfit for play. Practice for the ending of craving for perception.

"You should smash, scatter, & demolish fabrications, and make them unfit for play. Practice for the ending of craving for fabrications.

"You should smash, scatter, & demolish consciousness and make it unfit for play. Practice for the ending of craving for consciousness — for the ending of craving, Radha, is Unbinding."
Bhāra Sutta: The Burden

A burden indeed
are the five aggregates,
and the carrier of the burden
is the person.
Taking up the burden in the world
is stressful.
Casting off the burden
is bliss.
Having cast off the heavy burden
and not taking on another,
pulling up craving,
along with its root,
one is free from hunger,
totally unbound.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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Eko Care
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Re: Mind is not something that Cognizes.

Post by Eko Care »

pegembara wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:43 am The mind is to be developed.
After understanding what mind is.
pegembara
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Re: Mind is not something that Cognizes.

Post by pegembara »

Eko Care wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:30 pm
pegembara wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:43 am The mind is to be developed.
After understanding what mind is.
Care to clarify?
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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