32 marks of great man vs 32 parts of body meditation

[Bundokji]

Friends,

In AN10.60, the Buddha teaches the 32 parts of body meditation as the "perception of unattractiveness", whereas in DN30, he teach the 32 marks of a great man. Is there any relationship between the two? or is the number 32 in both cases is accidental and holds no meaning whatsoever?

Thank you

[SarathW]

If You look at Anguttara Nikaya you find many Buddhist teachings related to each number.
However, it lists only up to number 11 I suppose.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/index.html

[Bundokji]

If You look at Anguttara Nikaya you find many Buddhist teachings related to each number.
However, it lists only up to number 11 I suppose.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/index.html

The 32 parts are also included in Khp 3, but the focus on associating then with repulsiveness seems relevant to the elements.

I am wondering if the 32 marks of great man represent a transformation of the 32 parts of the body through perfecting the paramis by the Bodhisatta, or if the number 32 found in both cases is accidental or completely irrelevant.

[Bundokji]

To add context to my inquiry, there is the following thread:

viewtopic.php?t=34142

In this thread, some interesting points have been discussed such as whether the body parts are 31 or 32, and the centrality of the brain (which can be omissioned to contemplate anatta). One discussant found calling them 32 parts to be disrespectful to the Buddha as this could be reminiscent to the 32 marks of great man.

These differences can be relevant to:

1- If there is a central organ/part that other organs have recourse to.

2- If awakening is akin to a metamorphosis of some sort, transforming the disgusting/repulsive 32 (or 31) parts to marks of greatness.

As commissions and omissions are central to constructing meaning, so is numerology can be central to the function of memorizing the teachings. The Buddha did not provide number to the 32 parts of the body, but in DN30, he gave them number. Is there connection between the two?

[Bundokji]

Another numerological! parallel would be the 31 planes of existence. If they come to represent a universal body, then the Buddha's dwelling in the fourth rupa jhana could raise the question whether they are 31 or 32, considering that Buddha's have no permanent dwelling.

[Bundokji]

Another parallel has to do with Brahmans checking the Buddha for the 32nd mark, until the Buddha reveals it. There are more than one example in DN about that, as i remember.

[santa100]

In AN10.60, the Buddha teaches the 32 parts of body meditation as the "perception of unattractiveness", whereas in DN30, he teach the 32 marks of a great man. Is there any relationship between the two? or is the number 32 in both cases is accidental and holds no meaning whatsoever?

Doesn't seem like they're related. While a few parts are mentioned in both the 32 marks and the 32 parts like head hair and skin, most of the others in the 32 parts aren't shared at all: liver, spleen, large intestine, small intestine, feces, urine, etc...

[Joe.c]

32 marks are result of the practice. See explanation in Sutta. Anyone can have it as well. But might not get all the result in this life. Not necessarily needs all to achieve arahant. But one might see the result here and now when practice it hard on precepts etc.

32 parts of bodies are to be let go to achieve samma samadhi (jhana).

About 31 realms, well Please show me the sutta. Actually i know there is none. Those are compilations from people. Because there are just too many to list. Not merely 31. Those also has major mistake where listed Asura as lower realm, which is not,

That is how i understood.

[Bundokji]

In AN10.60, the Buddha teaches the 32 parts of body meditation as the "perception of unattractiveness", whereas in DN30, he teach the 32 marks of a great man. Is there any relationship between the two? or is the number 32 in both cases is accidental and holds no meaning whatsoever?

Doesn't seem like they're related. While a few parts are mentioned in both the 32 marks and the 32 parts like head hair and skin, most of the others in the 32 parts aren't shared at all: liver, spleen, large intestine, small intestine, feces, urine, etc...

Engaging in numerology and trying to separate correlations from causations is a funny business. We read ancient texts, full of allegories and myths, and we try to figure out how it applies to the world as it is commonly known. It is integral to faith that the master does not say things randomly, and that it is our duty figure out the puzzle.

Take teeth for example, which is listed fourth in the 32 parts of the body, and compare it to the last of the 32 marks of great man (which is 31 & 32 combined) - having even and white teeth. The typical adult human has 32 teeth (including the four wisdom teeth). Quite interestingly, not all humans possess the four wisdom teeth, and from evolutionary perspective, they are no longer necessary due to changes in human diet.

[Bundokji]

32 marks are result of the practice. See explanation in Sutta. Anyone can have it as well. But might not get all the result in this life. Not necessarily needs all to achieve arahant. But one might see the result here and now when practice it hard on precepts etc.

32 parts of bodies are to be let go to achieve samma samadhi (jhana).

About 31 realms, well Please show me the sutta. Actually i know there is none. Those are compilations from people. Because there are just too many to list. Not merely 31. Those also has major mistake where listed Asura as lower realm, which is not,

That is how i understood.

The 31 realms of existence is akin to the 31 parts of the body, in the sense that it reflects practitioners attempt to bridge the gap between the greatness of the Buddha and their ordinary minds. Such attempts can reflect an underlying belief that higher truths can still be found in our everyday lives. This is why the refuge is of three folds, and our most interactions is with the sangha, which includes individuals with varying degree of mental and spiritual developments. We can always falsify certain attempts to bridge gaps by strict adherence to the suttas, or view them as honest attempts by the community to help each other. It happened that most of what i learned thus far have been by people who share their love for wisdom without being necessarily wise.

[Joe.c]

Well looks like you are Over Thinking. Anyway try to hear true dhamma and practice precepts first. Don’t worry about too much stuff.

[Bundokji]

Well looks like you are Over Thinking. Anyway try to hear true dhamma and practice precepts first. Don’t worry about too much stuff.

I am not sure what is the relevance of your post, but thanks anyway.

And in case any ariyas are reading this: please if you decide to talk to me, speak the true dhamma to avoid any further confusions. Also it would be nice if you could explain how can i take the precepts with the impossibility of not breaking them.

Until then

[frank k]

There are 31 body parts, not 32.
Count it.
LBT Theravada added the brain as #32.
In the suttas, it's 31.

Friends,

In AN10.60, the Buddha teaches the 32 parts of body meditation as the "perception of unattractiveness", whereas in DN30, he teach the 32 marks of a great man. Is there any relationship between the two? or is the number 32 in both cases is accidental and holds no meaning whatsoever?

Thank you

[Bundokji]

There are 31 body parts, not 32.
Count it.
LBT Theravada added the brain as #32.
In the suttas, it's 31.

I guess it depends if one considers Khp canonical. I also can't help but wonder why the missing (or the controversial) organ has to be the brain - an organ that can be viewed as one unit or as two halves. According to wikipedia, the Visuddhimagga suggests the enumeration of the 31 body parts implicitly includes the brain in aṭṭhimiñjaṃ, which is traditionally translated as "bone marrow".

[Bundokji]

Does anyone know what is repulsive about head hair? Had it been repulsive, then all the nonsense muslims do about women covering their hair would be a complete waste of time, let alone Buddhist monastics (men and women) who shave their heads for reasons that has little to do with beautifying themselves.