Jhanas and meditation

[Kumara]

But worldwide English speakers, have been reading Thanissaro's books for decades, and they understand jhana as the Buddha's definition of jhana.

I used to think Aj Thanissaro got it right too.

[frank k]

But worldwide English speakers, have been reading Thanissaro's books for decades, and they understand jhana as the Buddha's definition of jhana.

I used to think Aj Thanissaro got it right too.

Are you implying he doesn't?
Please expand on that.

At least as far as kāya-rūpa physical body perception, and vitakka and vicāra, he's in accordance with the suttas.

VRJ (vism. redefinition of jhāna) is just orders of magnitude wrong, expecting people would buy the idea that 'body' means 'body of mind only factors' and 'vitakka' means 'not thinking' instead of 'verbal thoughts'.

[Kumara]

But worldwide English speakers, have been reading Thanissaro's books for decades, and they understand jhana as the Buddha's definition of jhana.

I used to think Aj Thanissaro got it right too.

Are you implying he doesn't?
Please expand on that.

At least as far as kāya-rūpa physical body perception, and vitakka and vicāra, he's in accordance with the suttas.

VRJ (vism. redefinition of jhāna) is just orders of magnitude wrong, expecting people would buy the idea that 'body' means 'body of mind only factors' and 'vitakka' means 'not thinking' instead of 'verbal thoughts'.

I agree with you. I believe I know what he means by "jhana". It remains a mental state (instead of meditation), a concentrated state, though not the absolutely absorbed kind where one is oblivious of everything. That explains why he still uses "concentration" and "absorption".

[nirodh27]

I used to think Aj Thanissaro got it right too.

Are you implying he doesn't?
Please expand on that.

At least as far as kāya-rūpa physical body perception, and vitakka and vicāra, he's in accordance with the suttas.

VRJ (vism. redefinition of jhāna) is just orders of magnitude wrong, expecting people would buy the idea that 'body' means 'body of mind only factors' and 'vitakka' means 'not thinking' instead of 'verbal thoughts'.

I agree with you. I believe I know what he means by "jhana". It remains a mental state (instead of meditation), a concentrated state, though not the absolutely absorbed kind where one is oblivious of everything. That explains why he still uses "concentration" and "absorption".

This is how Thanissaro sees first jhana. It is very traditional and, I must add, far from the suttas as I read it although for Thanissaro Vitakka is thought and vicara is evaluation.

The first jhana. Traditionally, the first jhana has five factors: directed thought, evaluation, singleness of preoccupation (the theme you’re focused on), rapture, and pleasure. The first three factors are the causes; the last two, the results. In other words, you don’t do rapture and pleasure. They come about when you do the first three factors well.

In this case, directed thought means that you keep directing your thoughts to the breath. You don’t direct them anywhere else. This is the factor that helps you stay concentrated on one thing.

Evaluation is the discernment factor, and it covers several activities. You evaluate how comfortable the breath is, and how well you’re staying with the breath. You think up ways of improving either your breath or the way you’re focused on the breath; then you try them out, evaluating the results of your experiments. If they don’t turn out well, you try to think up new approaches. If they do turn out well, you try to figure out how to get the most out of them. This last aspect of evaluation includes the act of spreading good breath energy into different parts of the body, spreading your awareness to fill the body as well, and then maintaining that sense of full-body breath and full-body awareness.

Evaluation also plays a role in fighting off any wandering thoughts that might arise: It quickly assesses the damage that would come to your concentration if you followed such thoughts, and reminds you of why you want to come back on topic. When the meditation is going well, evaluation has less work to do in this area and can focus more directly on the breath and the quality of your focus on the breath.

In short, evaluation plays both a passive and an active role in your relation to the breath. Its passive role is simply stepping back to watch how things are going. In this role, it develops both your alertness and your inner observer, which I discussed in Part One. The active role of evaluation is to pass judgment on what you’ve observed and to figure out what to do with it. If you judge that the results of your mental actions aren’t satisfactory, you try to find ways to change what you’re doing, and then put your ideas to the test. If the results are satisfactory, you figure out ways to maintain them and put them to good use. This develops your inner doer so that it can be more skillful in shaping the state of your mind.

Singleness of preoccupation means two things: First, it refers to the fact that your directed thought and evaluation both stay with nothing but the breath. In other words, your preoccupation is single in the sense that it’s the one thing you’re focused on. Second, your preoccupation is single in the sense that one thing—the breath—fills your awareness. You may be able to hear sounds outside the body, but your attention doesn’t run to them. They’re totally in the background. (This point applies to all the jhanas, and can even apply to the formless attainments, although some people, on reaching the formless attainments, find that they don’t hear sounds.)

When these three factors are solid and skillful, rapture and pleasure arise. The word “rapture” here is a translation of a Pali word—piti—that can also mean refreshment. It’s basically a form of energy and can be experienced in many ways: either as a quiet, still fullness in body and mind; or else as a moving energy, such as a thrill running through the body or waves washing over you. Sometimes it will cause the body to move. With some people, the experience is intense; for others, it’s gentler. This can, in part, be determined by how much your body is hungering for the energy. If it’s really hungry, the experience will be intense. If not, the experience may hardly be noticeable.

[Kumara]

I believe I know what he means by "jhana". It remains a mental state (instead of meditation), a concentrated state, though not the absolutely absorbed kind where one is oblivious of everything. That explains why he still uses "concentration" and "absorption".

This is how Thanissaro sees first jhana. It is very traditional and, I must add, far from the suttas as I read it although for Thanissaro Vitakka is thought and vicara is evaluation.

Interesting to see that someone else has noticed the same.

His understanding of piti, which he translates as “rapture”, also suggests to me that his 'jhana' isn't of the Suttas.

When these three factors are solid and skillful, rapture and pleasure arise. The word “rapture” here is a translation of a Pali word—piti—that can also mean refreshment. It’s basically a form of energy and can be experienced in many ways: either as a quiet, still fullness in body and mind; or else as a moving energy, such as a thrill running through the body or waves washing over you. Sometimes it will cause the body to move. With some people, the experience is intense; for others, it’s gentler. This can, in part, be determined by how much your body is hungering for the energy. If it’s really hungry, the experience will be intense. If not, the experience may hardly be noticeable.

[BrokenBones]

Piti is indeed a mental event. But we don't live in a world where the body and mind are separate. Piti sets off a reaction that can be felt throughout the body and as it lessens leaves a greater or lesser awareness of sukha.