Root beer

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 22410
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales

Re: Root beer

Post by Ceisiwr »

mikenz66 wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:52 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:16 am I take it from this then that for you Bhante even if a drink contains 0.5% alcohol, which isn’t going to do anything, it still shouldn’t be drunk?
0.5% beer has a noticeable effect for me. I drank some some time ago, thinking it was 0%... :rolleye:

Mike
I never notice a difference, unless I have like 10 but then I just feel a bit tired.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
User avatar
Sam Vara
Site Admin
Posts: 13482
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Portsmouth, U.K.

Re: Root beer

Post by Sam Vara »

Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:08 am
mikenz66 wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:52 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:16 am I take it from this then that for you Bhante even if a drink contains 0.5% alcohol, which isn’t going to do anything, it still shouldn’t be drunk?
0.5% beer has a noticeable effect for me. I drank some some time ago, thinking it was 0%... :rolleye:

Mike
I never notice a difference, unless I have like 10 but then I just feel a bit tired.
I was told that the local monks at Cittaviveka occasionally use Bach Flower Remedies, which are flower essences preserved in alcohol. The alcohol seems as potent as brandy, but you only put literally one drop on the tongue. But they still cook the alcohol off before using even this tiny amount.
denise
Posts: 659
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:56 pm
Location: U.S.A.

Re: Root beer

Post by denise »

:coffee: also, caffeine in root beer + a bunch of little kids = :woohoo: check the labels :tongue:
BKh
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 am

Re: Root beer

Post by BKh »

Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:29 am So for you even if it’s 0.5% it shouldn’t be drunk. Thank you. You could have just said “yes”, but here we are.
No. My point was (and I don't know why it wasn't clear) is that root beer comes in two forms: Alcoholic, which is alcoholic enough to be sold as an alcoholic drink, and non-alcoholic which never had any alcohol at all. Natural rootbeer is made by extracting the flavour from a root, not by fermenting something. I don't believe that there is any such thing as root beer that contains .5% alcohol. The OP was making it out that all root beer starts as an alcohol and will have a trace amount. That is false. Therefore, if it has alcohol, then it is going to have a substantial amount.

The post is about root beer. Not other things with trace amounts of alcohol. That's a different question and wasn't asked.
| One sutta per day to your inbox | ReadingFaithfully.org Support for reading the Suttas | Citation lookup helper | Instant sutta name lookup | Instant PED lookup | Instant DPPN lookup |
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 22410
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales

Re: Root beer

Post by Ceisiwr »

BKh wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:58 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:29 am So for you even if it’s 0.5% it shouldn’t be drunk. Thank you. You could have just said “yes”, but here we are.
No. My point was (and I don't know why it wasn't clear) is that root beer comes in two forms: Alcoholic, which is alcoholic enough to be sold as an alcoholic drink, and non-alcoholic which never had any alcohol at all. Natural rootbeer is made by extracting the flavour from a root, not by fermenting something. I don't believe that there is any such thing as root beer that contains .5% alcohol. The OP was making it out that all root beer starts as an alcohol and will have a trace amount. That is false. Therefore, if it has alcohol, then it is going to have a substantial amount.

The post is about root beer. Not other things with trace amounts of alcohol. That's a different question and wasn't asked.
And I was clearly not asking about root beer. I was asking generally. Not every post has to be exactly about the OP, as long as it doesn’t go too far off topic. I tried having a normal conversation with you. It failed. Let’s move on.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
BKh
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 am

Re: Root beer

Post by BKh »

Sam Vara wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:32 am I was told that the local monks at Cittaviveka occasionally use Bach Flower Remedies, which are flower essences preserved in alcohol. The alcohol seems as potent as brandy, but you only put literally one drop on the tongue. But they still cook the alcohol off before using even this tiny amount.
This is not related to the OP's question, however the Vinaya rule around this is clear. Alcohol was a known "vessel" for medicinal substances in the time of the Buddha. The rule is that you have to dilute the medicine that contains alcohol to the point that you can no longer taste the alcohol. Not burn it off. That could potentially damage the medicinal value of the medicine. In my understanding, taking even a drop directly on the tongue would break the rule, but mixing it with a small amount of water would not.
| One sutta per day to your inbox | ReadingFaithfully.org Support for reading the Suttas | Citation lookup helper | Instant sutta name lookup | Instant PED lookup | Instant DPPN lookup |
User avatar
Sam Vara
Site Admin
Posts: 13482
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Portsmouth, U.K.

Re: Root beer

Post by Sam Vara »

BKh wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:29 am
Sam Vara wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:32 am I was told that the local monks at Cittaviveka occasionally use Bach Flower Remedies, which are flower essences preserved in alcohol. The alcohol seems as potent as brandy, but you only put literally one drop on the tongue. But they still cook the alcohol off before using even this tiny amount.
This is not related to the OP's question
It's in response to Ceisiwr's post.
however the Vinaya rule around this is clear. Alcohol was a known "vessel" for medicinal substances in the time of the Buddha. The rule is that you have to dilute the medicine that contains alcohol to the point that you can no longer taste the alcohol. Not burn it off. That could potentially damage the medicinal value of the medicine.
The vinaya specifically forbids monks from heating medicines? :shrug:
BKh
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 am

Re: Root beer

Post by BKh »

Sam Vara wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:03 pm The vinaya specifically forbids monks from heating medicines? :shrug:
No. That's not what I said. The allowance for taking medicine that contains alcohol is that you dilute it to the point you cannot taste the alcohol that is still in the substance you are ingesting. You are not required to remove the alcohol through heating.

If you removed the alcohol through heating then no allowance would be needed since you aren't drinking any alcohol.

Of course medicines can be heated. That's how many medicines are created.
| One sutta per day to your inbox | ReadingFaithfully.org Support for reading the Suttas | Citation lookup helper | Instant sutta name lookup | Instant PED lookup | Instant DPPN lookup |
User avatar
Sam Vara
Site Admin
Posts: 13482
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Portsmouth, U.K.

Re: Root beer

Post by Sam Vara »

BKh wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:25 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:03 pm The vinaya specifically forbids monks from heating medicines? :shrug:
No. That's not what I said. The allowance for taking medicine that contains alcohol is that you dilute it to the point you cannot taste the alcohol that is still in the substance you are ingesting. You are not required to remove the alcohol through heating.

If you removed the alcohol through heating then no allowance would be needed since you aren't drinking any alcohol.

Of course medicines can be heated. That's how many medicines are created.
I can't see the point you are making, then. If the monks are not breaching vinaya through heating medicine, then what is the problem? Why should they not choose to remove the alcohol by heating if that's what they want to do? They are not required to remove alcohol by heating, but they are not forbidden to do so either.
BKh
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 am

Re: Root beer

Post by BKh »

I never said they couldn't heat the medicine! Why do you keep implying that I did? Good grief.

Moreover, just do a google search for "does cooking remove alcohol" and you will see that it doesn't cook off nearly as much or as quickly as one would think.
| One sutta per day to your inbox | ReadingFaithfully.org Support for reading the Suttas | Citation lookup helper | Instant sutta name lookup | Instant PED lookup | Instant DPPN lookup |
User avatar
Sam Vara
Site Admin
Posts: 13482
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Portsmouth, U.K.

Re: Root beer

Post by Sam Vara »

BKh wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 4:55 am I never said they couldn't heat the medicine! Why do you keep implying that I did? Good grief.
I haven't implied anything. I initially asked whether the vinaya proscribed it. Then, when you said that it did not, I asked what your point is, because the monks would not thereby have been breaking the vinaya. There's no implication there.

As I was only providing a small point of information for another poster, I'll leave it there, thanks, and whoever wants to pursue the issue can take it up with the monastics at Cittaviveka.
Post Reply