What is Shushka Vidarsana?

[SarathW]

What is Shushka Vidarsana?

I heard this terminology in Sri Lankan Buddhist circles but not in Dhamma Wheel.
What is it?
What is the Sutta reference?

Insight (Vidarshana) meditation is practiced through three methods. First is the method of Sushka Vidarshaka- directly into insight meditation. The other is by the method of Samatha first and then Vidarshana. The third is the method of Samatha and Vidarshana in tandem or alternately –the Yugananda method.

https://thelaybuddhist.blogspot.com/201 ... ation.html

[Sam Vara]

What is Shushka Vidarsana?

I heard this terminology in Sri Lankan Buddhist circles but not in Dhamma Wheel.
What is it?
What is the Sutta reference?

Insight (Vidarshana) meditation is practiced through three methods. First is the method of Sushka Vidarshaka- directly into insight meditation. The other is by the method of Samatha first and then Vidarshana. The third is the method of Samatha and Vidarshana in tandem or alternately –the Yugananda method.

https://thelaybuddhist.blogspot.com/201 ... ation.html

It's a commentarial term, I think, rather than a sutta one, and it refers to "dry insight"- in Pali sukkha (dry) vipassana (insight).

https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/sukkha-vipassaka

[SarathW]

Thanks.
Do you know how to practice dry insight?
Is it diffrent to Satipathana.

[Sam Vara]

I think it is just insight practised or attempted without jhanas or absorption. See here:

viewtopic.php?t=34390

and here:

viewtopic.php?t=24637

[SarathW]

"Then there is the case where a monk's mind has its restlessness concerning the Dhamma [Comm: the corruptions of insight] well under control. There comes a time when his mind grows steady inwardly, settles down, and becomes unified & concentrated. In him the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it — his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

In my opinion above is the dry insight.
Perhaps this is a person like me.

viewtopic.php?t=24637

[pegembara]

The path to arahantship - three involves insight and 4 involves samatha.

Yuganaddha Sutta: In Tandem

Ven. Ananda said: "Friends, whoever — monk or nun — declares the attainment of arahantship in my presence, they all do it by means of one or another of four paths. Which four?

"There is the case where a monk has developed insight preceded by tranquillity. As he develops insight preceded by tranquillity, the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it — his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed.

"Then there is the case where a monk has developed tranquillity preceded by insight. As he develops tranquillity preceded by insight, the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it — his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed.

"Then there is the case where a monk has developed tranquillity in tandem with insight. As he develops tranquillity in tandem with insight, the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it — his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed.

"Then there is the case where a monk's mind has its restlessness concerning the Dhamma [Comm: the corruptions of insight] well under control. There comes a time when his mind grows steady inwardly, settles down, and becomes unified & concentrated. In him the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it — his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed.

[pegembara]

"Then there is the case where a monk's mind has its restlessness concerning the Dhamma [Comm: the corruptions of insight] well under control. There comes a time when his mind grows steady inwardly, settles down, and becomes unified & concentrated. In him the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it — his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

In my opinion above is the dry insight.
Perhaps this is a person like me.

viewtopic.php?t=24637

How so when the word insight is clearly omitted and instead the state of samadhi is mentioned?
Maybe it is dry samatha instead?

Jhana Sutta: Mental Absorption AN 9.36
https://accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an ... .than.html

"I tell you, the ending of the mental fermentations depends on the first jhana... the second jhana... the third... the fourth... the dimension of the infinitude of space... the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness... the dimension of nothingness. I tell you, the ending of the mental fermentations depends on the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception.

[SarathW]

"Then there is the case where a monk's mind has its restlessness concerning the Dhamma [Comm: the corruptions of insight] well under control. There comes a time when his mind grows steady inwardly, settles down, and becomes unified & concentrated. In him the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it — his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

In my opinion above is the dry insight.
Perhaps this is a person like me.

viewtopic.php?t=24637

How so when the word insight is clearly omitted and instead the state of samadhi is mentioned?
Maybe it is dry samatha instead?

Jhana Sutta: Mental Absorption AN 9.36
https://accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an ... .than.html

"I tell you, the ending of the mental fermentations depends on the first jhana... the second jhana... the third... the fourth... the dimension of the infinitude of space... the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness... the dimension of nothingness. I tell you, the ending of the mental fermentations depends on the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception.

Sorry.
I am not sure of your point.
Are you saying that dry insight means there is no concentration when Arahantship realised?
In my opinion even in dry insight there is some concentration but not Samatha or Vipassana.
Perhaps may be some sort of access concentration.

[pegembara]

Sorry.
I am not sure of your point.
Are you saying that dry insight means there is no concentration when Arahantship realised?
In my opinion even in dry insight there is some concentration but not Samatha or Vipassana.
Perhaps may be some sort of access concentration.

The sutta uses the term jhana and arupas as mentioned above for arahantship. Even more significantly the 4 ways in which arahantship occurs, there is the mention of tranquility or stilling of the mind.
In other words without the necessary level of tranquility, Nibbana cannot be 'experienced'.
The very description suggests a mind that has achieved stillness/no restlessness. Where is there any mention of 'access concentration' in the suttas?

...restlessness concerning the Dhamma [Comm: the corruptions of insight] well under control.

"This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Nibbana."

[SarathW]

Sorry.
I am not sure of your point.
Are you saying that dry insight means there is no concentration when Arahantship realised?
In my opinion even in dry insight there is some concentration but not Samatha or Vipassana.
Perhaps may be some sort of access concentration.

The sutta uses the term jhana and arupas as mentioned above for arahantship. Even more significantly the 4 ways in which arahantship occurs, there is the mention of tranquility or stilling of the mind.
In other words without the necessary level of tranquility, Nibbana cannot be 'experienced'.
The very description suggests a mind that has achieved stillness/no restlessness. Where is there any mention of 'access concentration' in the suttas?

...restlessness concerning the Dhamma [Comm: the corruptions of insight] well under control.

"This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Nibbana."

So what is dry insight in your opinion?

[pegembara]

Sorry.
I am not sure of your point.
Are you saying that dry insight means there is no concentration when Arahantship realised?
In my opinion even in dry insight there is some concentration but not Samatha or Vipassana.
Perhaps may be some sort of access concentration.

So what is dry insight in your opinion?

What it says here ie. Insight without tranquility which isn't mentioned as one of 4 ways as posted above imo. What you called dry insight is described differently by my reading.

Care to point to another passage that describes "dry insight"?

"There is the case where a monk has developed insight preceded by tranquillity. As he develops insight preceded by tranquillity, the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it — his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed.

"Then there is the case where a monk has developed tranquillity preceded by insight. As he develops tranquillity preceded by insight, the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it — his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed.

"Then there is the case where a monk has developed tranquillity in tandem with insight. As he develops tranquillity in tandem with insight, the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it — his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed.