being aware, of being aware!

[Kumara]

‘atthi kāyo’8 ti vā panassa sati paccupaṭṭhitā hoti. Yāvadeva ñāṇamattāya paṭissatimattāya

I would prefer to apply above (in practice) as maintaining the mindfulness/awareness, up to the extent neccessary for the continuation of mindfulness and the knowledge.
Not very sure what was meant "ñāṇamattāya" in exact terms, but yet it is not a hindrance to practice as at now for me.

Your understanding is correct (except that you didn't include ‘atthi kāyo’ti). I'd translate "ñāṇa" here as simply "knowing" though. Our current usage of "knowledge" tend to refer to information.

[confusedlayman]

u have to maintain it during sleep.. u get sleep paralysis and then u can induce jhana by radiating metta from sleep paralysis stage..

[dhammachakka]

(update on my thought process)

SUMMARY: i choose to translate 'paṭissatimattāya' as merely 'self-reflective awareness'.
paṭissati = self-reflective awareness


1. buddha Himself has mentioned "paṭissatimattāya" as an intermediate stage between "ñāṇamattāya" and "anissito ca viharati" (anatta) in the mahasatipaṭṭhāna sutta.

2. i choose to translate 'paṭissatimattāya' as 'self-reflective awareness'.

3. the mālukyaputta Sutta and bāhiya sutta offers buddha's detailed explanation about the nature of the awareness (sati) that reflects on itself. you may check.

4. 'paṭissatimattāya' is self-reflective awareness of the ñāṇamattāya state.

'ñāṇamattāya' = mere awareness (of anicca-lakkhaṇa) / mere understanding (of anicca-lakkhaṇa) / mere observation (of anicca-lakkhaṇa) / mere anicca-ñāṇa / observer-is-observed as 'mere anicca-ñāṇa'.

paṭissatimattāya = merely self-reflective awareness (of anicca-lakkhaṇa). here the awareness (sati) turns further inwards and is 'aware of itself' or the 'awareness reflects on itself' (being merely-aware of anicca-lakkhaṇa).

'paṭissatimattāya' is the further advanced stage of 'ñāṇamattāya' where the awareness is aware of its mere-awareness of anicca-lakkhaṇa and due to further deepening nibbida-ñāṇa, the fixation of awareness on anicca-lakkhaṇa falls away leading to dwelling in support-less emptiness or anatta (anissito ca viharati).

5. just as meghiya sutta confirms, anicca-saññā develops into anatta-saññā. 'paṭissatimattāya' is the intermediate stage of transition from anicca-sañña to anatta-sañña whereby the subtle attachment of sati with the object of anicca-lakkhaṇa is also transcended leading to dwelling in support-less emptiness (anatta).

6. what is written above is very much verifiable by experiential insight.

7. RE: "Punappunaṃ saraṇato anussaraṇavasena anussati. Abhimukhaṃ gantvā viya saraṇato paṭisaraṇavasena paṭissati". (Mahāniddesa-aṭṭhakathā 1. Kāmasuttaniddesavaṇṇanā)

here, "Abhimukhaṃ" may be interpreted as "facing oneself" or "facing the kammaṭṭhāna" or "self-reflective awareness of the object of kammaṭṭhāna" in order to justify the difference between "anussati" in the preceding line and "paṭissati".

8. i seek the help of learned pāli scholars to kindly consider contemplating & translating the following three quotes. it may help to present evidence about the true experential meaning of'paṭissatimattāya'

A. "Gāthāsu ānāpāne paṭissatoti ānāpānanimittasmiṃ paṭi paṭi sato, upaṭṭhitassatīti attho".
- Asubhānupassīsuttavaṇṇanā

B. "Sampajānoti sattaṭṭhāniyena sampajaññena samannāgato. Patissatoti kammaṭṭhānaṃ phātiṃ, gametuṃ samatthāya satiyā patissato satokārī".
- Itivuttaka-aṭṭhakathā, Ekakanipāto, Dutiyasekhasuttavaṇṇanā

C. Punappunaṃ saraṇato anussaraṇavasena anussati. Abhimukhaṃ gantvā viya saraṇato paṭisaraṇavasena paṭissati".
- Mahāniddesa-aṭṭhakathā 1. Kāmasuttaniddesavaṇṇanā

9. discussions with those who are not convinced was helpful in compelling me to find better words and explanations for 'paṭissatimattāya' and realizing that it has already been explained in deep detail by the buddha Himself.

with veneration to the sangha, deep respect and gratitude for all dhamma scholars & much mettā for everyone,

manish

[dhammachakka]

'paṭissatimattāya' is not memory or rememberance as PTS dictionary & some scholars assert.

not is it simply 'mindfulness' (sati) as PTS dictionary and some scholars assert.

calling paṭissatimattāya as 'mere awareness' as ñāṇamattāya as 'mere understanding' (VRI) is not proper because ñāṇamattāya itself is mere awareness / mere understanding (of anicca-lakkhaṇa).

calling paṭissatimattāya as 'merely bare-awareness' i.e. defining paṭissati as bare-awareness is misleading and leaves "bare" undefined in the development of vipassanā-ñāna.

[pegembara]

First there is awareness of sights, sounds, smells, tastes, touch, thoughts, feelings eg. a ringing bell with its touch, taste of metal, thoughts about the bell and the feelings evoked. There is a heavy mental overlay of perception, memory, knowledge superimposed on the experience of 'bell'.

Second the individual components of that experience are discerned and become separate. The 'bell' is no longer seen as just a bell but simply that the bell is a composite of individual components put together.

Third there is a lost of interest in what is 'out there' and a sense of things being 'empty' ('fading away' aka virago). Attention turns away from out there to in here.

What is left is 'awareness' being aware of 'itself'. Buddho or poo roo in Thai.

This is the way it is. You detach. You let go. Whenever there is any feeling of clinging, we detach from it, because we know that that very feeling is just as it is. It didn’t come along especially to annoy us. We might think that it did, but in truth it just is that way. If we start to think and consider it further, that, too, is just as it is. If we let go, then form is merely form, sound is merely sound, odour is merely odour, taste is merely taste, touch is merely touch and the heart is merely the heart. It’s similar to oil and water. If you put the two together in a bottle, they won’t mix because of the difference of their nature.…

Oil and water are different in the same way that a wise person and an ignorant person are different. The Buddha lived with form, sound, odour, taste, touch and thought. He was an arahant (Enlightened One), so he turned away from rather than toward these things. He turned away and detached little by little since he understood that the heart is just the heart and thought is just thought. He didn’t confuse and mix them together.

The heart is just the heart; thoughts and feelings are just thoughts and feelings. Let things be just as they are! Let form be just form, let sound be just sound, let thought be just thought. Why should we bother to attach to them? If we think and feel in this way, then there is detachment and separateness. Our thoughts and feelings will be on one side and our heart will be on the other. Just like oil and water—they are in the same bottle but they are separate.

~ Ajahn Chah, “The Training of the Heart” in Food for the Heart