My Brain And Heart Divorced – John Roedel

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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SarathW
Posts: 21227
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

My Brain And Heart Divorced – John Roedel

Post by SarathW »

my brain and
heart divorced

a decade ago

over who was

to blame about
how big of a mess
I have become

eventually,

they couldn’t be
in the same room
with each other

now my head and heart
share custody of me

stay with my brain
during the week

and my heart
gets me on weekends
they never speak to one another

– instead, they give me
the same note to pass
to each other every week

and their notes they
send to one another always
says the same thing:

“This is all your fault’

on Sundays

my heart complains
about how my

head has let me down
in the past

and on Wednesday
my head lists all
of the times my
heart has screwed
things up for me
in the future

they blame each
other for the

state of my life

there’s been a lot
of yelling – and crying

SO,
lately, I’ve been
spending a lot of

time with my gut

who serves as my
unofficial therapist

most nights, sneak out of the
window in my ribcage

and slide down my spine
and collapse on my

gut’s plush leather chair
that’s always open for me

~ and just sit sit sit sit
until the sun comes up

last evening,

my gut asked me

if was having a hard
time being caught
between my heart
and my head

nodded

said didn’t know
if could live with
either of them anymore
“my heart is always sad about

something that happened yesterday

while my head is always worried

about something that may happen tomorrow,
lamented

my gut squeezed my hand

‘just can’t live with

my mistakes of the past

or my anxiety about the future,’
sighed

my gut smiled and said:
‘in that case,

you should

go stay with your

lungs for a while,’

was confused
– the look on my face gave it away

“if you are exhausted about

your heart’s obsession with

the fixed past and your mind’s focus
on the uncertain future

your lungs are the perfect place for you

there is no yesterday in your lungs
there is no tomorrow there either

there is only now

there is only inhale

there is only exhale

there is only this moment

there is only breath
and in that breath

you can rest while your
heart and head work
their relationship out.’

this morning,
while my brain
was busy reading
tea leaves

and while my
heart was staring
at old photographs

packed a little
bag and walked
to the door of
my lungs

before could even knock
she opened the door

with a smile and as

a gust of air embraced me
she said
“what took you so long?’

by John Roedel
My Brain And Heart Divorced – John Roedel

https://www.mindfulnessassociation.net/ ... hn-roedel/
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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retrofuturist
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Re: My Brain And Heart Divorced – John Roedel

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

What is this topic about?

:shrug:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
SarathW
Posts: 21227
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: My Brain And Heart Divorced – John Roedel

Post by SarathW »

I thought it was a nice poem about not clinging to the two extremes of the past and the future.
It is about the stay in the present (breath awareness).
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
pegembara
Posts: 3465
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: My Brain And Heart Divorced – John Roedel

Post by pegembara »

SarathW wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:57 am I thought it was a nice poem about not clinging to the two extremes of the past and the future.
It is about the stay in the present (breath awareness).
By the time you get to the end of the poem, the present has long passed. :smile:
As a matter of fact, by the time you have read this, the 'present' has already gone.

Bhaddekaratta Sutta
"And how is one taken in with regard to present qualities? There is the case where an uninstructed run-of-the-mill person who has not seen the noble ones, is not versed in the teachings of the noble ones, is not trained in the teachings of the noble ones, sees form as self, or self as possessing form, or form as in self, or self as in form.

"He/she sees feeling as self, or self as possessing feeling, or feeling as in self, or self as in feeling.

"He/she sees perception as self, or self as possessing perception, or perception as in self, or self as in perception.

"He/she sees thought-fabrications as self, or self as possessing thought-fabrications, or thought-fabrications as in self, or self as in thought-fabrications.

"He/she sees consciousness as self, or self as possessing consciousness, or consciousness as in self, or self as in consciousness. This is called being taken in with regard to present qualities.

"And how is one not taken in with regard to present qualities? There is the case where a disciple of the noble ones who has seen the noble ones, is versed in the teachings of the noble ones, is well-trained in the teachings of the noble ones, does not see form as self, or self as possessing form, or form as in self, or self as in form.

"He/she does not see feeling as self, or self as possessing feeling, or feeling as in self, or self as in feeling.

"He/she does not see perception as self, or self as possessing perception, or perception as in self, or self as in perception.

"He/she does not see thought-fabrications as self, or self as possessing thought-fabrications, or thought-fabrications as in self, or self as in thought-fabrications.

"He/she does not see consciousness as self, or self as possessing consciousness, or consciousness as in self, or self as in consciousness. This is called not being taken in with regard to present qualities.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
SarathW
Posts: 21227
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: My Brain And Heart Divorced – John Roedel

Post by SarathW »

pegembara wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:11 am
SarathW wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:57 am I thought it was a nice poem about not clinging to the two extremes of the past and the future.
It is about the stay in the present (breath awareness).
By the time you get to the end of the poem, the present has long passed. :smile:
As a matter of fact, by the time you have read this, the 'present' has already gone.
Agree.
That is perhaps the reason why you have to let go off the present too.
This matter is discussed in details in Majja Sutta.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
pegembara
Posts: 3465
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: My Brain And Heart Divorced – John Roedel

Post by pegembara »

there is only now

there is only inhale

there is only exhale

there is only this moment
In breath
Out breath
One thought/word
One touch
One clock tick
Contact, mendicants, is one end. The origin of contact is the second end. The cessation of contact is in the middle.
Contact and cessation. Then another contact and cessation.
Craving is the seamstress that stitches them together eg. the words turn into sentences and into paragraphs, into chapters, books etc.
One musical note into a phrase and into a piece and into an musical work.
One paint dot ----> painting
One video frame--->movie
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
SarathW
Posts: 21227
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: My Brain And Heart Divorced – John Roedel

Post by SarathW »

pegembara wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:24 am
there is only now

there is only inhale

there is only exhale

there is only this moment
In breath
Out breath
One thought/word
One touch
One clock tick
Contact, mendicants, is one end. The origin of contact is the second end. The cessation of contact is in the middle.
Contact and cessation. Then another contact and cessation.
Craving is the seamstress that stitches them together eg. the words turn into sentences and into paragraphs, into chapters, books etc.
One musical note into a phrase and into a piece and into an musical work.
One paint dot ----> painting
One video frame--->movie
:twothumbsup:
I am glad you understood this.
I was struggling to make sense of this statement.
Thank you.

How the present become the seamstress?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
pegembara
Posts: 3465
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: My Brain And Heart Divorced – John Roedel

Post by pegembara »

SarathW wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:10 am
pegembara wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:24 am
there is only now

there is only inhale

there is only exhale

there is only this moment
In breath
Out breath
One thought/word
One touch
One clock tick
Contact, mendicants, is one end. The origin of contact is the second end. The cessation of contact is in the middle.
Contact and cessation. Then another contact and cessation.
Craving is the seamstress that stitches them together eg. the words turn into sentences and into paragraphs, into chapters, books etc.
One musical note into a phrase and into a piece and into an musical work.
One paint dot ----> painting
One video frame--->movie
:twothumbsup:
I am glad you understood this.
I was struggling to make sense of this statement.
Thank you.

How the present become the seamstress?
The seamstress aka craving created the past, present, and future. The 'past' is weaved into the 'present'( present story) in the form of a story from memory that is actually just an arising and likewise the 'future'.

1010001101010111001
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
SarathW
Posts: 21227
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: My Brain And Heart Divorced – John Roedel

Post by SarathW »

pegembara wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:24 am
there is only now

there is only inhale

there is only exhale

there is only this moment
In breath
Out breath
One thought/word
One touch
One clock tick
Contact, mendicants, is one end. The origin of contact is the second end. The cessation of contact is in the middle.
Contact and cessation. Then another contact and cessation.
Craving is the seamstress that stitches them together eg. the words turn into sentences and into paragraphs, into chapters, books etc.
One musical note into a phrase and into a piece and into an musical work.
One paint dot ----> painting
One video frame--->movie
How can you apply this logic to pleasant feelings, painful feelings, and neutral feelings?
How the neutral feelings be the seamstress?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
pegembara
Posts: 3465
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: My Brain And Heart Divorced – John Roedel

Post by pegembara »

SarathW wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:16 am
pegembara wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:24 am
there is only now

there is only inhale

there is only exhale

there is only this moment
In breath
Out breath
One thought/word
One touch
One clock tick
Contact, mendicants, is one end. The origin of contact is the second end. The cessation of contact is in the middle.
Contact and cessation. Then another contact and cessation.
Craving is the seamstress that stitches them together eg. the words turn into sentences and into paragraphs, into chapters, books etc.
One musical note into a phrase and into a piece and into an musical work.
One paint dot ----> painting
One video frame--->movie
How can you apply this logic to pleasant feelings, painful feelings, and neutral feelings?
How the neutral feelings be the seamstress?
Craving is the seamstress, not feelings.
When feelings are 'stitched together' there is the perception of being the same 'person' who was previously at peace until
he finds out that his car was stolen.

MN 123 Acchariya-abbhuta Sutta: Wonderful and Marvellous
Buddha: "That being so, Ananda, remember this too as a wonderful and marvellous quality of the Tathagata: Here, Ananda, for the Tathagata feelings are known as they arise, as they are present, as they disappear; perceptions are known as they arise, as they are present, as they disappear; thoughts are known as they arise, as they are present, as they disappear. Remember this too, Ananda, as a wonderful and marvellous quality of the Tathagata."
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
Pulsar
Posts: 2641
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:52 pm

Re: My Brain And Heart Divorced – John Roedel

Post by Pulsar »

pegembara wrote
Craving is the seamstress, not feelings.
When feelings are 'stitched together' there is the perception of being
According to Buddha's path (middle Sutta and the related verse in Parayanavagga), it is not the feelings that are stitched together.
It is the craving that arises due to intention resulting from feeling, Craving is in the intention. Intention houses consciousness. Seamstress of Middle sutta is found in that consciousness. Seamstress is a metaphor for the linking activity of the consciousness. With that renewing process, old consciousness faces aging and death
  • This factually is the aging and death found in Dependent Origination.
But this is Buddha's path. Maybe I should not say this?
Because this forum is on "Connection to other paths." Buddha's path leads to extinguishment of suffering. Other paths lead to heavens and other fun and not-so-fun realms.
What is the seamstress bent on? in Buddha's path.
  • It is bent on creating a new consciousness.
How does a new consciousness arise, first the mind spontaneously gives rise to a rupa (as craving arises). The image depends on which consciousness comes into play. If it is the eye consciousness in play, a visual image of a thing seen in the past (a woman?) is painted in the mind, which immediately gets labeled. Label is related identification. Ego or self raises its head every second in the puthujjana, and is never dissociated from the arising consciousness.
If the longing or craving is for the taste of a fine alchohol, a vision (image) of the finest Scotch may appear in the mind, and taste consciousness retrieves the taste from a previously tasted scotch. A taste comes into being.
In either case seamstress stitches the Rupa to the label or Nama whether that rupa is imaginary smell or imaginary sight.
  • The Seamstress in the middle sutta, never stitches feelings together.

Dear SarathW, I know you had a question on Middle Sutta on the Theravada Forum. And there it seemed you figured out the answer, or maybe not?
  • Middle sutta is not a connection to other paths.
With love :candle:
zolaharber
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Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2023 8:59 am

Re: My Brain And Heart Divorced – John Roedel

Post by zolaharber »

I just want to say that your poem is quite sad. I'm already stress but seeing your title makes me even sadder. It's deep but not lift my mood up so if anyone doesn't happy, I don't recommend reading this thread
Last edited by zolaharber on Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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