WHy is Meditation more Superior to Sila?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Re: WHy is Meditation more Superior to Sila?

Post by tharpa »

"Gifts are still given in my family, lord, but they are coarse: broken rice cooked with bran"

In other words, brown rice is inferior to white rice. :D
May all beings, in or out of the womb, be well, happy and peaceful.
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Re: WHy is Meditation more Superior to Sila?

Post by Ontheway »

When the mind is developed, Sila will be firmed.
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

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Re: WHy is Meditation more Superior to Sila?

Post by jc1990 »

Meditation is step 2, sila is step 1, you can't go to step 2 without first having sila.
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Re: WHy is Meditation more Superior to Sila?

Post by Gwi II »

Akashad wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:32 am Hello,

I might have this wrong but i came across a sutta or teaching that says we make more good karma by meditating than keeping sila or giving dana.

Does anyone know where this quote was written in?

Also can anyone help me understand WHY exactly is meditation more superior?

Thank you. :anjali:
Which is better, "A grade" or "A plus"?
The answer is "A Plus".

"Sīla" is certainly good, but "meditation" is more (better).
Meditation without precepts will not bring good results
and without meditation, progress will not be great.

This is the order:
(1) Sīla to (2) meditation, meditation to (3) wisdom.

The statement of many bhikkhus,
"There is no wisdom without meditation."

There are two types of wisdom: (1) understanding
what is right and wrong and (2) understanding the
Noble Truths. Nonbuddhist do not have second kind
CONSTANTLY. Why? Their teachers have no expertise
(at all) to teach Vipassanā (to know anicca-dukkha-anattā).

Nonbuddhists can observe high precepts;
but HIGH MEDITATION is only taught by
Buddhists, namely Vipassanā-bhāvanā.
So, clearly MEDITATION is superior to sīla.
Gwi: "There are only-two Sakaṽādins:
Theraṽādå&Ṽibhajjaṽādå, the rest are
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Re: WHy is Meditation more Superior to Sila?

Post by AgarikaJ »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:31 pm
BrokenBones wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:28 pm One could also say that meditation without sila is worthless, while sila without meditation is still very beneficial.
Can you actually meditate without virtue though? Would it have been possible for Patañjali to achieve his samādhi (whatever you might think of it) without virtue and sense restraint?
The two initial ascetic teachers of the Buddha were meditators and taught him access even into the highest Jhanas -- he meditated several years under them. However, their teaching was, that this was already the goal of meditation and in fact true enlightenment, instead of just another step to gaining Enlightenment.

This means, that both those acetics could gain amazing progress in their meditation, experiencing true Bliss, it only led them nowhere near Enligthenment. While I am sure that they meditated with virtue and sense restraint, according to the Buddha it was aimless.

Therefore, Right Wisdom (Right View and Right Resolve) are the first two steps on the Noble Eightfold Path, encpsulating the reason why the Buddha rejected those teachings as insufficient. They are the starting point of Buddhist practice.

With having this direction in mind, we should -- on the Noble Eightfold Path -- develop Sila (Right Action, Right Speech, and Right Livelihood).

The last part of the Noble Eightfold Path is then to meditate, to be able to realize the true nature of the world (Right Mindfulness, Right Effort, and Right Concentration), finally leading to enlightenment. In itself, meditation is not superior to Sila, they are just two parts of the equation.

Finally, meditating without Sila is never worthless, because you still will gain some limited insights. However, according to many meditation teachers it is much more difficult, because only with Sila you have a chance to build a sufficiently stable, unworried, unhindered mind to let got of your fetters and the likelihood to reach Enlightenment without it are zero: your progress will stop somewhere, because you will be unable to hold Right Concentration in your perturbed mind long enough. This is the reason why the Buddha recommended the development of Sila as middle step.

As Leigh Brasington did put it (see also his really recommendable book on Jhana meditation):
Gotama left a life of luxury to become a wandering ascetic. He studied with 2 teachers, learning the first 7 Jhanas from the first teacher and the 8th Jhana from the second teacher.
He realized that the Jhanas did not lead to higher understanding, in themselves. He left his teachers and practiced alone for some period of time. He used the Jhana practice to concentrate his mind. He used his concentrated mind to probe dependent origination. He took his own mind/body as the ground to examine in probing dependent origination. He achieved a breakthru in consciousness.
He was able to articulate the breakthru (the Four Noble Truths) and was able to teach others how to achieve this breakthru for themselves (the Eightfold Path).
The teaching is a lake with shores of ethics, unclouded, praised by the fine to the good.
There the knowledgeable go to bathe, and cross to the far shore without getting wet.
[SN 7.21]
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Re: WHy is Meditation more Superior to Sila?

Post by befriend »

Mindfulness if practiced consistently protects the mind from defilements I notice when I am aware of the arising and passing of the six senses I am less greedy. Mindfulness also diminishes defilements. And it's a wholesome mind state so if your being aware of the present moment when you greet people you will already be happy and smiling. This is how mindfulness is likened to sila. I heard a story from an IMS teacher who said they brought an elder Dhamma teacher to show him how buddhism has come to the west and he said it's like people rowing in boats very hard but their still anchored to the pier. Meaning they try hard in meditation but don't get anywhere because of their not so good behavior to other people. Another woman said some people don't smile naturally when they meditate because they have no metta in their hearts.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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