How far you can go with Micca Jhana?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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SarathW
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How far you can go with Micca Jhana?

Post by SarathW »

How far you can go with Micca Jhana?

I have no doubt Mitya Jhana can go up to first Jhana.
Some times I wonder Mitya Jhana can go as far as third Jhana. (I may be wrong)
The question I have is whether Mitya Jahana can go beyond third Jhana.
When I say Mitya Jhana means unwholesome concentration or house hold type Jhana.
Murderer, a person accomplishing a difficult task etc.

EDIT:Please note it is Micca not Mitya.
Last edited by SarathW on Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mikenz66
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Re: How far you can go with Mitya Jhana?

Post by mikenz66 »

SarathW wrote:a.
When I say Mitya Jhana means unwholesome concentration or house hold type Jhana.
Do you mean micca? I don't think "mitya" is a Pali word...

:anjali:
Mike
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cjmacie
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Re: How far you can go with Mitya Jhana?

Post by cjmacie »

SarathW wrote:How far you can go with Mitya Jhana?

I have no doubt Mitya Jhana can go up to first Jhana.
Some times I wonder Mitya Jhana can go as far as third Jhana. (I may be wrong)
The question I have is whether Mitya Jahana can go beyond third Jhana.
When I say Mitya Jhana means unwholesome concentration or house hold type Jhana.
Murderer, a person accomplishing a difficult task etc.
Is that metta (Skt = maitrī)?

In which case, according to Visuddhimagga, can not go past 3rd Jhana because the object is an external focus; likewise karuna & mudita.

The only Brahmavihara that can go to 4th jhana being upekkha (equanimity).
perkele
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Re: How far you can go with Mitya Jhana?

Post by perkele »

mikenz66 wrote:Do you mean micca? I don't think "mitya" is a Pali word...
"Mitya" is sinhalese for "micca", apparently.

I think the term "mitya jhana" or "micca jhana" does not refer to anything canonical.

The term "micca samadhi" appears in the canon, for example here: AN 10.103: Micchatta Sutta - Wrongness
"In a person of wrong view, wrong resolve comes into being. In a person of wrong resolve, wrong speech. In a person of wrong speech, wrong action. In a person of wrong action, wrong livelihood. In a person of wrong livelihood, wrong effort. In a person of wrong effort, wrong mindfulness. In a person of wrong mindfulness, wrong concentration (micca samadhi). In a person of wrong concentration, wrong knowledge. In a person of wrong knowledge, wrong release.
But I think all these "wrong" counterparts of the factors of the eightfold path are nowhere defined. One would have to infer what it means.

But as for samadhi, I think that samma samadhi, i.e. right concentration, is actually defined as the jhanas (somewhere, I don't know where). So micca samadhi would have to be some form of concentration that has nothing to do with the jhanas, and the term "micca jhana" would be an oxymoron.
SarathW
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Re: How far you can go with Mitya Jhana?

Post by SarathW »

mikenz66 wrote:
SarathW wrote:a.
When I say Mitya Jhana means unwholesome concentration or house hold type Jhana.
Do you mean micca? I don't think "mitya" is a Pali word...

:anjali:
Mike
Thanks Mike yes it is Micca.
Sorry, I have the habit of writing as per Sinhalease language.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SarathW
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Re: How far you can go with Micca Jhana?

Post by SarathW »

In a person of wrong concentration, wrong knowledge. In a person of wrong knowledge, wrong release.
Yes I meant wrong concentration.
My understanding is Jhana factors (Vitakka, Viccara etc.) are found in wrong concentration as well.
The way I understand, in wrong concentration you are going thorough stages similar to first Jhana etc.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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_anicca_
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Re: How far you can go with Micca Jhana?

Post by _anicca_ »

I don't think you could go much farther than a state of non-perception (I.E. Blocking everything out, similar to being asleep) or delusion concentration (a feeling of samadhi, but without proper focus on the object of meditation).
"A virtuous monk, Kotthita my friend, should attend in an appropriate way to the five clinging-aggregates as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a dissolution, an emptiness, not-self."

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confusedlayman
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Re: How far you can go with Micca Jhana?

Post by confusedlayman »

If u take jhana states as me or I due to ignorance, then it’s wrong concentration. People with wrong concentration become Brahms and goes down to sensual realm or lower world later

Right concentration is four or eight jhanas with no ignorance of self etc… if jhana is seen as just phenomena coming and passing away… the meditator reborn in jhana realm or pure abode but never returns back.

Correct me if wrong
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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