Why at the 3rd council?

[DarwidHalim]

The gap between the 1st and 3rd council is about 250 years.

However, at the 1st and 2nd council, there is recitation of abidhamma Sutta to put it as a writing record.

Due to this abidhamma record as well, theravada was formed.

Does anybody know why abidhamma only came or recited after 250 years?

[retrofuturist]

Greetings Darwid,

In this Classical Mahavihara Theravada section of the forum you will receive the official internal account of why this is so.

If however you're looking for...

a topic in which to discuss issues surrounding the Abhidhamma Pitaka, such as its:

* Origins (including issues relating to Buddhist Councils etc.)
* Timeframes
* Inclusion in the Pali Tipitaka, versus other Canons (such as the Chinese Canon where it is absent)
* Content, and variations therein with respect to the teachings of the Sutta Pitaka

... plus any other issues of scholarly, academic, practical or casual interest that cannot be pursued within the Abhidhamma Forum on account of its Terms Of Service.

... then I'd recommend checking out ...

The great Abhidhamma Pitaka authenticity debate
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2169" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,
Retro.

[Virgo]

The gap between the 1st and 3rd council is about 250 years.

However, at the 1st and 2nd council, there is recitation of abidhamma Sutta to put it as a writing record.

Due to this abidhamma record as well, theravada was formed.

Does anybody know why abidhamma only came or recited after 250 years?

As far as I know it was always recited but in the early days it was not classified as it's own pitika, rather it was classified as part of the Khuddaka Nikaya. Therefore it didn't receive any separate mention. When things were rearranged, it got "pitika" classification. So why it's own basket? It was probably treated that way by teachers and students anyway, so...

That is as far as I know. I may be wrong. Perhaps Robert or others could comment on this.

Kevin

[robertk]

it was recited at the first council. But the katthavatthu , the fifth book, had to wait until the 3rd council until the various controversies that it refutes had taken hold.

[Virgo]

Thank you for that clarification, Robert.

Kevin

[LadyM]

it was recited at the first council. But the katthavatthu , the fifth book, had to wait until the 3rd council until the various controversies that it refutes had taken hold.

Well, that makes sense - I was wondering about this well. Thanks for making it clear!

LadyM

[Gwi II]

Does anybody know why abidhamma only came or recited after 250 years?

Can I ask for a reference? From
"scholars" (see sceeenshot)??

Two types of scholars:
1. Stupid,
2. Smart.

You are clearly influenced by the notion of
"sarvastivada". This name was given by a
stranger, referring to this (slander): ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶
c̶r̶e̶a̶t̶o̶r̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶A̶b̶h̶i̶d̶h̶a̶m̶m̶a̶???????

Just like "hinayana" is a name of derision
from other groups. The meaning of "hina"
is despicable or lowly (a mocking name).
"sarvastivada" is similar to another language
or maybe a mixture of Pāḷi?? This is deserves
to be rejected because from strangers!!


This is the Theravādo lineage:
1. Council I,
2. Council II,
3. Council III (Vibhajjavādo [father]
and Theravādo [mother]).

Theravādo = Orthodox = Original

[Sam Vara]

Does anybody know why abidhamma only came or recited after 250 years?

Can I ask for a reference?

Certainly, but you are unlikely to get one. The poster you are responding to has not posted for over 11 years.

[Gwi II]

Does anybody know why abidhamma only came or recited after 250 years?

Can I ask for a reference?

Certainly, but you are unlikely to get one. The poster you are responding to has not posted for over 11 years.

I forgot to check the year, but thank
you. Maybe someone can help him.

[Ceisiwr]

…

The Sarvāstivādins said that some of their Abhidharma came from later monks, other parts from Ven. Sāriputta. The works they said came from Ven. Sāriputta have parallels in the Theravādin Abhidharma. All other schools of Abhidharma also trace their teachings to Ven. Sāriputta. For example, the Śāriputrābhidharma. Based on this I would say the truth is in the middle. Some Abhidharma comes from Ven. Sāriputta, commissioned by the Master, whilst the rest comes from later monks and nuns (which doesn’t inherently mean it’s wrong).

[Gwi II]

...

That's a nontheravada group (whatever
they want to say). In essence the name
was given to the accusation.

The Sarvāstivādins said that some of their Abhidharma came from later monks ....

Maybe it was your (EBt)
ancestors, but I don't know
(really not important for me).

[Ceisiwr]

That's a nontheravada group (whatever
they want to say). In essence the name
was given to the accusation.

Yes. They were Sarvāstivādin, not Vibhajyavādin. Initially it looks like their name was a slur, as they initially preferred the names of “The School of Logic” (Yuktivada) or “The School of Causes” (Hetuvada) However by the time of Ven. Saṃghabhadra they had adopted the name themselves.

Maybe it was your (EBt)
ancestors, but I don't know
(really not important for me).

The Dhammasaṅgaṇī is a completely Theravādin invention. Countless Buddhists back then wouldn’t have even heard of it. When it comes to the Vibhaṅga or Puggalapaññatti though everyone back then seems to have known them, as Abhidharma.

[Gwi II]

Yes. They were Sarvāstivādin, not Vibhajyavādin.

Perfect. Sarwastivada not Theravādin.

The Dhammasaṅgaṇī is a completely Theravādin invention.

Nice sarwastivada (opposite to Theravādin).

download/file.php?id=8902&mode=view

Just like "hinayana" is a name of derision
from other groups. The meaning of "hina"
is despicable or lowly (a mocking name).
"sarvastivada" is similar to another language
or maybe a mixture of Pāḷi?? This is deserves
to be rejected because from strangers!!


This is the Theravādo lineage:
1. Council I,
2. Council II,
3. Council III (Vibhajjavādo [father]
and Theravādo [mother]).

Theravādo = Orthodox = Original