Does this breaks the 3rd precept?

[Joe.c]

…

Quick question. Did he say this?

In all the realms under and above Brahma, I have set up the flag of power abundantly. I will reside in contentment. In the future I will be brave and unsurpassed during the victory of the next Buddha, Metteyya.

Because i know an ariya will never say this EVER. Especially if one has reached a non return (aka cut off sensual desires permanently.

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

Quick question. Did he say this?

In all the realms under and above Brahma, I have set up the flag of power abundantly. I will reside in contentment. In the future I will be brave and unsurpassed during the victory of the next Buddha, Metteyya.

Because i know an ariya will never say this EVER. Especially if one has reached a non return (aka cut off sensual desires permanently.

Allegedly, he said this in 1900, when he was intensively practising samatha mediation. What stages he attained later in life is unknown. Whatever, it is absurd to accuse him of not understanding the third precept.

[Ceisiwr]

Quick question. Did he say this?

In all the realms under and above Brahma, I have set up the flag of power abundantly. I will reside in contentment. In the future I will be brave and unsurpassed during the victory of the next Buddha, Metteyya.

Because i know an ariya will never say this EVER. Especially if one has reached a non return (aka cut off sensual desires permanently.

Allegedly, he said this in 1900, when he was intensively practising samatha mediation. What stages he attained later in life is unknown. Whatever, it is absurd to accuse him of not understanding the third precept.

Didn't he claim Arahantship in his diaries Bhante?

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

Didn't he claim Arahantship in his diaries Bhante?

He was widely acclaimed as an Arahant, which is why I referred to him as a Noble One. It is hard to know for sure, what claims were made due to devotion of followers, poor translations, misinterpretations, etc. One should have no doubts about his great learning and practical experience in meditation, both Samatha and Vipassanā. Who would accuse him of not understanding the basic principles of morality for householders?

The Vinaya monastic discipline is a legal code. If a monk commits sexual intercourse, even with his former wife, he is defeated. If he has other sexual relations not involving penetration, it is an offence involving a meeting of the Saṅgha. If he has wicked thoughts, there is no offence. No moral precepts can be broken on the mental level. Nevertheless, unwholesome mental kamma is created, which may lead to suffering in the lower realms.

Teenagers may entertain thoughts to want to kill their parents or teachers, but if they do not act upon them, there is no breaking of the first precept. Ideally, one should do no evil by body, speech, or thought. However, the Buddha understood that human beings are not without defects, so he made a set of rules that were possible to observe.

[Rambutan]

Nibbana is the only true happy ending

[Sam Vara]

Nibbana is the only true happy ending

[Gwi II]

I absolutely love how you took the time to think about my post, and then gave a substantiated argument, with quotes or links, or maybe excerpts from Suttas, to counter what I wrote.

This clearly makes you one of the wise champions of this forum. Maybe only eclipsed by Capuccino, who puts even more work in his posts.

Ofc I have to read it.
I dont need "champion".

You want Sutto? Here from a bhikkhu, to u:

Four Factors of Sexual Misconduct

1. There must be a man or a woman with whom it is improper to have sexual intercourse.
2. One must intend to have such sexual relations with them.
3. One must strive to have intercourse.
4. One must consent to the contact of the sexual organs.

If all four factors are fulfilled, the third precept is violated and should be taken again.

How to Establish Morality (Maggaṅga Dīpanī, Venerable Ledi Sayādaw).

[AgarikaJ]

I absolutely love how you took the time to think about my post, and then gave a substantiated argument, with quotes or links, or maybe excerpts from Suttas, to counter what I wrote.

This clearly makes you one of the wise champions of this forum. Maybe only eclipsed by Capuccino, who puts even more work in his posts.

Ofc I have to read it.
I dont need "champion".

You want Sutto? Here from a bhikkhu, to u:

Four Factors of Sexual Misconduct

1. There must be a man or a woman with whom it is improper to have sexual intercourse.
2. One must intend to have such sexual relations with them.
3. One must strive to have intercourse.
4. One must consent to the contact of the sexual organs.

If all four factors are fulfilled, the third precept is violated and should be taken again.

How to Establish Morality (Maggaṅga Dīpanī, Venerable Ledi Sayādaw).

Again, careless in your answer, not offering any argumentation and reading right over my lengthy answer to Bhikkhu Pesala's morally quite alarming posting.

You are seemingly unaware, that you are in the 'Sila' section, so I do not undersrand your attempt at "lawyering".

But of course, if you do not want to properly engage in a discussion, why do you even answer?

[Joe.c]

Allegedly, he said this in 1900, when he was intensively practising samatha mediation. What stages he attained later in life is unknown. Whatever, it is absurd to accuse him of not understanding the third precept.

It is unknown, YET you claim he was an Ariya. And threaten me with Repercussion.

Be careful in doing that because it can become a boomerang that hit own self and completely seal own path now and future.

Btw, Better go back to the source that is Buddha, Dhamma and only Ariya Sangha. Because only these folks walk the same path of N8FP.

o Btw, if an ariya has known Brahma world here and now with the samadhi, they will never comeback. Never ever say that statement EVER.

Please ask Why comeback to suffer again in human world, it is ridiculous. Even to Breath is to suffer for one who has developed samma samadhi.

[pops]

... even to breathe would be suffering for someone who has developed a serious illness but not samma samadi (whatever that description shall mean besides an illness).

[Ṭhānuttamo]

Well i guess one can try having more sex and see where the kamma vipaka yield in future. My guess is animal realm. Don’t believe me, one can see how animal behave now.

When it comes to interpreting the teachings of the Buddha, guessing is not recommended. Visākhā had sixteen children, and 256 grandchildren, yet she was a Stream-winner from the age of seven. You accused the late Venerable Ledi Sayādaw of not understanding the third precept correctly. Do you even know who he was, or anything about him? Slandering the Noble Ones is not good. Put out the fire of pride and egotism. Sexual desire is only eradicated fully at the stage of Non-returning. Until then, at least abstain from sexual relations with unsuitable persons, which breaks the third precept. If you can also observe chastity as a layman or a monk, that is obviously better. If you cannot observe it always, observe the Uposatha Sīla on full-moon days. Otherwise, as a bare minimum, observe Eight Precepts with Right-livelihood as the Eighth.

Well stated, bhante!

[Ṭhānuttamo]

Allegedly, he said this in 1900, when he was intensively practising samatha mediation. What stages he attained later in life is unknown. Whatever, it is absurd to accuse him of not understanding the third precept.

It is unknown, YET you claim he was an Ariya. And threaten me with Repercussion [...]. Be careful in doing that [...]. [...] go back to the source that is Buddha, Dhamma and only Ariya Sangha [...]. o Btw, if an ariya has known Brahma world here and now with the samadhi, they will never comeback. Never ever say that statement EVER.

I think to be that blunt toward a highly learned elder member of the saṅgha who aligns himself so closely to actual Buddha-Dhamma and issuing orders is very impolite and inappropriate. Whatever the ariyan status of Ven. Ledi Sayadaw and Ven. Pesala, they are respectable members of the saṅgha in the very least, so respect and humility are called for, whether one agrees or disagrees on certain points.

[Joe.c]

I think to be that blunt toward a highly learned elder member of the saṅgha who aligns himself so closely to actual Buddha-Dhamma and issuing orders is very impolite and inappropriate. Whatever the ariyan status of Ven. Ledi Sayadaw and Ven. Pesala, they are respectable members of the saṅgha in the very least, so respect and humility are called for, whether one agrees or disagrees on certain points.

Sorry like i said I can be very blunt nowadays. I have thrown out all bad ones.

If you want to venerate them. That is your problem, not mine.

I only venerate these 8 folks per sanghanusati

... Yadidaṃ cattāri purisa-yugāni aṭṭha purisa-puggalā,. Esa Bhagavato Sāvaka-saṅgho.

Āhuneyyo, pāhuneyyo, dakkhiṇeyyo, anjalikaraṇīyo
...

[Ṭhānuttamo]

Sorry like i said I can be very blunt nowadays. I have thrown out all bad ones. If you want to venerate them. That is your problem, not mine. I only venerate these 8 folks per sanghanusati

... Yadidaṃ cattāri purisa-yugāni aṭṭha purisa-puggalā,. Esa Bhagavato Sāvaka-saṅgho.
Āhuneyyo, pāhuneyyo, dakkhiṇeyyo, anjalikaraṇīyo
...

From the standpoint of the Buddha's teaching, respect and veneration even toward ordinary monastics was and still is the recommended norm (not just in Asia), except in severe cases. We also shouldn't forget the plain human factor in this that applies for all interactions. According to the Buddha himself, just because someone isn't anjalikaraṇīyo in the ultimate sense doesn't mean we possess a free pass to behave like a bull in a china shop.

[Joe.c]

From the standpoint of the Buddha's teaching, respect and veneration even toward ordinary monastics was and still is the recommended norm (not just in Asia), except in severe cases. We also shouldn't forget the plain human factor in this that applies for all interactions. According to the Buddha himself, just because someone isn't anjalikaraṇīyo in the ultimate sense doesn't mean we possess a free pass to behave like a bull in a china shop.

Let me ask you question, If you know directly from your own knowledge that someone is plainly wrong and teaching adhamma as saddhamma, do you still venerate them blindly?

As I said you are free to venerate anyone, please don't ask me do the same. Because I need to verify all, can't follow blindly anymore.