One reason why people might deny self

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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auto
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

One reason why people might deny self

Post by auto »

The reason is that one doesn't yet have personal spirit.
Zhong-Lü chuandao ji by Livia Kohn wrote:Lü asked : Mystery within mystery: all people have life destiny. Yet this
life destiny has no essence of its own. Thus I do not have any personal qi ,
but only the primordial yang of father and mother. Without essence and
without qi , I do not have any personal spirit, but only the primordial spirit
of father and mother. How, then, can one obtain essence, qi , and spirit the
so called treasures of the three fields and make sure they stay constantly
in the three palaces, upper, middle, and lower?
connection to budhism, taoist alchemy is influenced by budhist materials(internal observation).
wrote:Zhong replied: The kidneys generate qi , which contains the water of
perfect oneness. As adepts cause this water to revert to the lower elixir field,
essence nurtures the root of the life force and qi is spontaneously generated.
The heart generates fluid, which contains the qi of rightful yang. As adepts
get this qi to revert to the middle elixir field, qi nurtures the source of the
life force and spirit is spontaneously generated. As they gather life force into
spirit, they can merge with spirit and enter Dao. As they revert it to the up-
per elixir field, they can attain liberation.
*
wrote:By the 5th century, Buddhism had risen to the status of a major religion and Daoist schools adopted its doctrines widely..
SarathW
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: One reason why people might deny self

Post by SarathW »

This is one of the wrong views listed in the Brahmajala Sutta.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .bodh.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
auto
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: One reason why people might deny self

Post by auto »

SarathW wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:03 pm This is one of the wrong views listed in the Brahmajala Sutta.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .bodh.html
Can you spell it out what view you mean is wrong here?
SarathW
Posts: 21297
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: One reason why people might deny self

Post by SarathW »

auto wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:53 pm
SarathW wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:03 pm This is one of the wrong views listed in the Brahmajala Sutta.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .bodh.html
What is one of the wrong views listed?
Any view with craving is a wrong view.
Even if you take the Noble Eightfold Path or Nibbana with craving it is a wrong view.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
auto
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: One reason why people might deny self

Post by auto »

SarathW wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:56 pm
auto wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:53 pm
SarathW wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:03 pm This is one of the wrong views listed in the Brahmajala Sutta.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .bodh.html
What is one of the wrong views listed?
Any view with craving is a wrong view.
Even if you take the Noble Eightfold Path or Nibbana with craving it is a wrong view.
ok, i see
SarathW
Posts: 21297
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: One reason why people might deny self

Post by SarathW »

auto wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:58 pm
SarathW wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:56 pm
auto wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:53 pm
What is one of the wrong views listed?
Any view with craving is a wrong view.
Even if you take the Noble Eightfold Path or Nibbana with craving it is a wrong view.
ok, i see
Just a correction.
Taking the Noble Eightfold Path or Nibbana with craving is called the right view with the affluent. (Lokiya Samma Ditthi)
Bhante Dhammanando or someone else can clarify this for us.
Craving here means Atta Upadana.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
pegembara
Posts: 3487
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: One reason why people might deny self

Post by pegembara »

SarathW wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:56 pm
auto wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:53 pm
SarathW wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:03 pm This is one of the wrong views listed in the Brahmajala Sutta.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .bodh.html
What is one of the wrong views listed?
Any view with craving is a wrong view.
Even if you take the Noble Eightfold Path or Nibbana with craving it is a wrong view.

"And what is kamma that is dark & bright with dark & bright result? There is the case where a certain person fabricates a bodily fabrication that is injurious & non-injurious ... a verbal fabrication that is injurious & non-injurious ... a mental fabrication that is injurious & non-injurious ... He rearises in an injurious & non-injurious world ... There he is touched by injurious & non-injurious contacts ... He experiences injurious & non-injurious feelings, pleasure mingled with pain, like those of human beings, some devas, and some beings in the lower realms. This is called kamma that is dark & bright with dark & bright result.

"And what is kamma that is neither dark nor bright with neither dark nor bright result, leading to the ending of kamma? Right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration. This is called kamma that is neither dark nor bright with neither dark nor bright result, leading to the ending of kamma.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html


"And what is right view? Right view, I tell you, is of two sorts: There is right view with effluents, siding with merit, resulting in acquisitions [of becoming]; there is right view that is noble, without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path.

"And what is the right view with effluents, siding with merit, resulting in acquisitions? 'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions. There is this world & the next world. There is mother & father. There are spontaneously reborn beings; there are contemplatives & brahmans who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is the right view with effluents, siding with merit, resulting in acquisitions.

"And what is the right view that is noble, without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path? The discernment, the faculty of discernment, the strength of discernment, analysis of qualities as a factor for awakening, the path factor of right view[1] in one developing the noble path whose mind is noble, whose mind is without effluents, who is fully possessed of the noble path. This is the right view that is noble, without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
auto
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: One reason why people might deny self

Post by auto »

SarathW wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 11:27 pm
auto wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:58 pm
SarathW wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:56 pm

Any view with craving is a wrong view.
Even if you take the Noble Eightfold Path or Nibbana with craving it is a wrong view.
ok, i see
Just a correction.
Taking the Noble Eightfold Path or Nibbana with craving is called the right view with the affluent. (Lokiya Samma Ditthi)
Bhante Dhammanando or someone else can clarify this for us.
Craving here means Atta Upadana.
Is this something to do with the OP? what do you mean by the atta upadana?
SarathW
Posts: 21297
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: One reason why people might deny self

Post by SarathW »

auto wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:54 am
SarathW wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 11:27 pm
auto wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:58 pm
ok, i see
Just a correction.
Taking the Noble Eightfold Path or Nibbana with craving is called the right view with the affluent. (Lokiya Samma Ditthi)
Bhante Dhammanando or someone else can clarify this for us.
Craving here means Atta Upadana.
Is this something to do with the OP? what do you mean by the atta upadana?
Sorry I myself is not clear of this so I have started the following new topic to clarify this.
viewtopic.php?p=759395#p759395
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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