Beggininglesness?

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Ervin
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:46 pm

Beggininglesness?

Post by Ervin »

Hi everyone, I would like to start a thread on beggininglesness. For instance, was I ever a snake or an ant and was I somehow in relashionship with every living being or is it somehow different?

Thanks
SarathW
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Beggininglesness?

Post by SarathW »

"This is how he attends inappropriately: 'Was I in the past? Was I not in the past? What was I in the past? How was I in the past? Having been what, what was I in the past? Shall I be in the future? Shall I not be in the future? What shall I be in the future? How shall I be in the future? Having been what, what shall I be in the future?' Or else he is inwardly perplexed about the immediate present: 'Am I? Am I not? What am I? How am I? Where has this being come from? Where is it bound?'
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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robertk
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Re: Beggininglesness?

Post by robertk »

https://suttacentral.net/sn15.14/en/suj ... ript=latin

Linked Discourses 15.14
Saṁyutta Nikāya 15.14
Chapter Two
2. Dutiyavagga
Mother
Mātusutta
At Sāvatthī.
Sāvatthiyaṁ viharati.
“Mendicants, transmigration has no known beginning. …
“Anamataggoyaṁ, bhikkhave, saṁsāro …pe…
It’s not easy to find a sentient being who in all this long time has not previously been your mother.
na so, bhikkhave, satto sulabharūpo yo namātābhūtapubbo iminā dīghena addhunā.

Why is that?
Taṁ kissa hetu?
Transmigration has no known beginning. …
Anamataggoyaṁ, bhikkhave, saṁsāro …pe…
This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.”
alaṁ vimuccitun”ti.
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Rambutan
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Re: Beggininglesness?

Post by Rambutan »

Ervin wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:10 am Hi everyone, I would like to start a thread on beggininglesness. For instance, was I ever a snake or an ant and was I somehow in relashionship with every living being or is it somehow different?

Thanks
There was no fixed moment where snake or ant of you or I can be established, meaning ‘not being in a state of constant change and transformation’. So, if there’s no fixed point, there is no beginning.

This is one of the ways to understand Beginningless. In other words, no “thing” begins. That’s just an appearance we cling to as ultimately ‘real’ due to ignorance.

And when we refer to ignorance, can’t find when the beginning of that is either.

For example, suppose you go somewhere and suddenly realize that you left your phone at home. We can say that ‘not-knowing you don’t have it’ is a type of ignorance.

But here’s the question: when did the ignorance of having forgotten your phone begin? Did it begin the moment that you left your house, or did it begin the later moment when you realized that you had forgotten it? If ignorance is the absence of knowing, then when does the absence of something begin?
This questioning applies because we arise as samsaric beings, as snakes and ants, due to ignorance. If ignorance is the absence of something, and the absence of something has no beginning, then it is Beginningless.

Another way to consider beginninglessness or ‘beginningless time’ is simply that time itself has no beginning. Time can’t fit into the category of’things yhst begin and end’ . Any supposed duration of a moment can be divided infinitely.
emptyset
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Re: Beggininglesness?

Post by emptyset »

"Whoever sees dependent origination sees the Dhamma; whoever sees the Dhamma sees dependent origination."
brunobr
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Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:38 pm

Re: Beggininglesness?

Post by brunobr »

Buddha has said that regressing as many aeons as the grains of sand in Ganges River would not be enough to reach a beginning of the Samsara.

But to say "the beginning is not discernible", as the Buddha said, is different of saying that "there is not a beginning". Because it is impossible to know directly the truth of the last statement, and clinging to anything that can't be understood as if "only this may be true, the rest is false" creates obstacles to Enlightenment.
Neo
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Re: Beggininglesness?

Post by Neo »

Neo wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 1:28 pm
Last edited by Neo on Sat Apr 13, 2024 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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