Nibbāna. Citta? Nāma?

Discussion of Abhidhamma and related Commentaries
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Suddh
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2023 8:57 am

Nibbāna. Citta? Nāma?

Post by Suddh »

From another topic:
jons wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 6:53 am
Suddh wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 5:06 am
jons wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 4:59 am

This is profound teaching by the Ven. Sariputta, and very profound indeed.
In the Abhidhamma:
Nibbana = Citta + Santi + piti ( Citta with peace and bliss ).

The end of the 5 Khandhas.

Peace to all
Jons
Are you sure of this representation of the abhidhamma position? I'd love to see the Pali if you can find it for me.
I read an Abhidhamma Translation by Dr. Mehm Tin Mon Called Buddha Abhidhamma Ultimate
Science. You go to get a pdf from site below:
https://www.buddhistelibrary.org/en/dis ... play_media

Peace to all
Jons
Can anyone confirm whether or not this is accurate and where to find it?

Also from the same book:
The four mental groups (nàmakkhandhas) consisting of all cittas and all cetasikas, and Nibbàna are the five kinds of the immaterial called nàma. It is significant that Nibbàna is classed under nàma: this may imply that Nibbàna is a mental state or an immaterial state observed by lokuttara-cittas.
Does abhidhamma really include Nibbāna under Nāma?
“A sage at peace is not born, does not age, does not die... He has nothing whereby he would be born. Not being born, will he age? Not aging, will he die?"
MN 140
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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Nibbāna. Citta? Nāma?

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

This is profound teaching by the Ven. Sariputta, and very profound indeed.
In the Abhidhamma:
Nibbana = Citta + Santi + piti ( Citta with peace and bliss ).

The end of the 5 Khandhas.

Peace to all
Jons
Is it another teaching linked to Hinduism?
Sat Chit Ananda mantra evokes the bliss of pure knowledge and consciousness.

Sat – Can be thought of as absolute or pure truth. Sat also represents the eternal and everlasting, ‘that which never changes,’ our spiritual presence.

Chit – Chit is related to awareness or consciousness, also interpreted as knowledge.

Ananda – Ananda means bliss, happiness, or joy. It is our deep true essence. There is not just one way of interpreting the meaning of a mantra.

To repeat it will allow you to experience its power, a feeling of oneness with all things.

https://cheyoga.co.uk/yoga/meditate-usi ... it-ananda/
Hari OM Tat Sat - Moola Mantra
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFpTAXBMIOw

Om
Sat Chit Ananda Parabrahma
Purushothama Paramatma
Sri Bhagavathi Sametha
Sri Bhagavathe Namaha
:namaste:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/
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cappuccino
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Re: Nibbāna. Citta? Nāma?

Post by cappuccino »

Lucas Oliveira wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 1:51 pm Is it another teaching linked to Hinduism?
No…
jons
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:21 pm

Re: Nibbāna. Citta? Nāma?

Post by jons »

Suddh wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 9:01 am From another topic:
jons wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 6:53 am
Suddh wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 5:06 am

Are you sure of this representation of the abhidhamma position? I'd love to see the Pali if you can find it for me.
I read an Abhidhamma Translation by Dr. Mehm Tin Mon Called Buddha Abhidhamma Ultimate
Science. You go to get a pdf from site below:
https://www.buddhistelibrary.org/en/dis ... play_media

Peace to all
Jons
Can anyone confirm whether or not this is accurate and where to find it?

Also from the same book:
The four mental groups (nàmakkhandhas) consisting of all cittas and all cetasikas, and Nibbàna are the five kinds of the immaterial called nàma. It is significant that Nibbàna is classed under nàma: this may imply that Nibbàna is a mental state or an immaterial state observed by lokuttara-cittas.
Does abhidhamma really include Nibbāna under Nāma?
Nibbana is not under nama.
Nibbana = extinguishing
Extinguishing of what?
The extinguishing of Kilesas and Asavas
A human being is Citta wrapped up in Kilesas and Asavas....
We practice the path (use the power of sobhana cetasikas) to get rid of Akusala Cetasikas from the Citta and at the finish end of the path is just citta and sobhana cetasikas (citta + Santi + Piti).

Practice meditation and analyze the Abhidhamma.
I hope you see the same thing.

Peace to all
Jons
Suddh
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2023 8:57 am

Re: Nibbāna. Citta? Nāma?

Post by Suddh »

jons wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 3:22 pm
Suddh wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 9:01 am From another topic:
jons wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 6:53 am
I read an Abhidhamma Translation by Dr. Mehm Tin Mon Called Buddha Abhidhamma Ultimate
Science. You go to get a pdf from site below:
https://www.buddhistelibrary.org/en/dis ... play_media

Peace to all
Jons
Can anyone confirm whether or not this is accurate and where to find it?

Also from the same book:
The four mental groups (nàmakkhandhas) consisting of all cittas and all cetasikas, and Nibbàna are the five kinds of the immaterial called nàma. It is significant that Nibbàna is classed under nàma: this may imply that Nibbàna is a mental state or an immaterial state observed by lokuttara-cittas.
Does abhidhamma really include Nibbāna under Nāma?
Nibbana is not under nama.
Nibbana = extinguishing
Extinguishing of what?
The extinguishing of Kilesas and Asavas
A human being is Citta wrapped up in Kilesas and Asavas....
We practice the path (use the power of sobhana cetasikas) to get rid of Akusala Cetasikas from the Citta and at the finish end of the path is just citta and sobhana cetasikas (citta + Santi + Piti).

Practice meditation and analyze the Abhidhamma.
I hope you see the same thing.

Peace to all
Jons
I'd agree it's not under Nāma but that's what it says in this abhidhamma book you recommended me.
“A sage at peace is not born, does not age, does not die... He has nothing whereby he would be born. Not being born, will he age? Not aging, will he die?"
MN 140
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zerotime
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Re: Nibbāna. Citta? Nāma?

Post by zerotime »

I believe this is because the dissection of the Abhidhamma, in where there are moments with specific supramundane cittas (magga and phala) knowing nibbana at the mind-door level.
The magga cittas knows nibbana for some moments so the defilements can be eradicated. The phala cittas knows nibbana like the fruit. This is known at the mind-door level, in where nibbana is taken to be an object. Because this reason probably that book says nibbana is classified like nama.
Note that classification is about the moments in where the -self delusion is already eradicated.

This is useful: http://www.vipassana.info/nina-abhi-23.htm

At least I understand it doesn't mean nibbana is nama but it is classified like nama when this is known. Not the same thing.

The slippery point is when the "Cease" in the Buddha teaching doesn't mean the destruction of anything. The cease of nama-rupa is not the destruction of nama and rupa but the cease of clinging to nama-rupa. This point is slippery because it is by our clinging to nama-rupa when the nama-rupa becomes real "to me". When there is no clinging just we can say there is an unconditioned ambit, in where it is impossible to say "it exist" neither "it doesn't exist". This is just another land, another dimension, or whatever any other label to be applied.

Note if the Cease would mean the annihilation of nama-rupa, then the experience of nibbana would be a volatilization of the person and the whole world. And this would be absurd.

Arhanthood is final freedom from dukkha and rebirth. No annihilation of anything, except clinging and defilements.
Nibbana and Parinibbana are the same
jons
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Re: Nibbāna. Citta? Nāma?

Post by jons »

Suddh wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 1:10 am
jons wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 3:22 pm
Suddh wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 9:01 am
I'd agree it's not under Nāma but that's what it says in this abhidhamma book you recommended me.
Nāma is mental faculty of all beings in Samsara. The mental faculties are Vinnana, Vedana, Sanna, and Sankhara. Nāma broke apart from Citta at arahantship, and there is no Nāma in Nibbana.

Peace to all
Jons
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