Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

[SarathW]

Please note I have started a new topic.

Can lay people follow the Vinaya rules?


http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=24430" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Vanda]

To keep a clear mind is important. Why is alcohol so important to have?

[Ben]

Please keep this thread on topic.

[SarathW]

"Here, O bhikkhus, a certain individual is naked, devoid of social habits, [12] licks his hands [after eating], [13] does not accept alms if called or requested to wait, [14] and neither accepts food brought to him, nor specially prepared for him, nor an invitation [to dine]. Neither does he accept from the brim of a pot, or from the brim of a cooking vessel; [15] nor anything handed across a threshold, over a stick, or over a rice pounder; [16] not from two people eating together, [17] nor from a woman with child; [18] nor from one giving suck, [19] nor from one indulging in courtship with a man. [20] Nor does he accept food that has been collected from others, [21] nor from where a dog is waiting for food, [22] nor from where swarms of flies are buzzing round; [23] he neither eats fish nor flesh, nor drinks spirituous liquor, arrack, nor fermented rice."

http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh079-u.html

What is the meaning of the highlighted phrase?
Does this mean it is ok to consume alcohol?

[rodnas]

If someone reach enlightenment then no amount of alcohol changes his behavior, as drink only effects the ego, not the true self.
Some spiritual schools use alcohol in moderately doses in order to reach a mental state, but it's surely has no real positive effect on an average drinker.
Alcohol, just like drugs create an inbalance in the mind which firstly comes as feeling good and hyper then it brings down the experiencer to even a mentally deeper level.

[justindesilva]

Reading through Dammika Sutra I noticed that Lord Buddha advised his followers to abstain from liquor for one's own good in order to keep the senses clean and clear
Intoxicant s however reacts in the brain to disharmonise the senses of any person is a fact medically proved.
Whether shown by budda or not what is bad is bad.

[Mkoll]

"Here, O bhikkhus, a certain individual is naked, devoid of social habits, [12] licks his hands [after eating], [13] does not accept alms if called or requested to wait, [14] and neither accepts food brought to him, nor specially prepared for him, nor an invitation [to dine]. Neither does he accept from the brim of a pot, or from the brim of a cooking vessel; [15] nor anything handed across a threshold, over a stick, or over a rice pounder; [16] not from two people eating together, [17] nor from a woman with child; [18] nor from one giving suck, [19] nor from one indulging in courtship with a man. [20] Nor does he accept food that has been collected from others, [21] nor from where a dog is waiting for food, [22] nor from where swarms of flies are buzzing round; [23] he neither eats fish nor flesh, nor drinks spirituous liquor, arrack, nor fermented rice."

http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh079-u.html

What is the meaning of the highlighted phrase?
Does this mean it is ok to consume alcohol?

Hi Sarath,

For your first question, the meaning is not consuming meat or alcohol.

For your second question, the context of the quote you gave provides the answer.

[SarathW]

[quoteFor your second question, the context of the quote you gave provides the answer.][/quote]
Thanks James.
Can you give bit more information please.
Should a monk accept alcohol if someone offer him?

[Mkoll]

Hi Sarath,

By context, I mean that the information is provided in the introduction to the sutta,

The description of the first individual enables the reader to understand, to some extent, the austerities of those addicted to self-mortification.

, as well as the sutta itself.

“And which individual, O bhikkhus, is a tormentor of self, is addicted to the practice of self-torment?

[...]

he neither eats fish nor flesh, nor drinks spirituous liquor, arrack, nor fermented rice."

[SarathW]

So I read it as not drinks spirituous liquor is a tormentor of self, is addicted to the practice of self-torment?

[davidbrainerd]

So I read it as not drinks spirituous liquor is a tormentor of self, is addicted to the practice of self-torment?

So you ignore the whole rest of the list then. Its obvious the ealier parts of the list constitute the self-torment, the rest just tag along for completeness. Not drinking liquor is by no means torture.

[Mkoll]

So I read it as not drinks spirituous liquor is a tormentor of self, is addicted to the practice of self-torment?

Hi SarathW,

Given the context, I read that as one of the practices, likely in combination with the others mentioned, that some ascetics of the Buddha's time were engaged in, some believing that such practices themselves would lead to enlightenment. I see it as self-torment in the sense of there being a belief that if one tortures oneself enough, one will attain enlightenment—this is the extreme of self-mortification which is opposite the extreme of sensual indulgence. The Middle Way, which the Buddha presents as the gradual path later in the sutta, is figuratively "in between" those.

[SarathW]

Thanks James
Penny dropped now!

[Mkoll]

Thanks James
Penny dropped now!

I had not heard that expression before. Thank you for sharing it.

[SarathW]

Don't you have old coin operated telephone boxes in US?