Are my future parents already here?

[Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta]

He uses a lot of scifi terms like this.

Hello,

Would you please just kindly forgive & ignore me for these terms?
I'm just getting hang-overs from the highs of reading "the science of enlightenment" by Shinzen Young.

about future daddy & mommy; it describes:

Don’t be afraid to let expansion and contraction tear you apart, scattering you in many directions while ripping away the solid ground beneath you. Behind that seeming disorder is an ordering principle so primordial that it can never be disordered: father-God effortlessly expands while mother-God effortlessly contracts.
-
-
It expands and contracts and gives birth to gods, ghosts, angels, avatars, saints, sinners, garlands, and garbage cans.

After reading that, I feel like more safe to take refuge in Scientology's Xenu



Regarding Bante Sujato's book, I haven't read it before. However, with what you said in mind, searching Bhikkhu Sujato's Digha Nikaya using the words "neuro, neuroscience, gene, genetic, quantum, bang (just please kindly forget about the sizes ) etc., I am pleasantly relieved to find only a handful of such kind of words "interstellar" and "infinite space" plus "Terminator";and, IMHO, they are used within the cultural context of Buddha's time. I am totally ok with Bante's translation regarding these terms.

[Manopubbangama]

He uses a lot of scifi terms like this.

Hello,

Would you please just kindly forgive & ignore me for these terms?
I'm just getting hang-overs from the highs of reading "the science of enlightenment" by Shinzen Young.

about future daddy & mommy; it describes:

Don’t be afraid to let expansion and contraction tear you apart, scattering you in many directions while ripping away the solid ground beneath you. Behind that seeming disorder is an ordering principle so primordial that it can never be disordered: father-God effortlessly expands while mother-God effortlessly contracts.
-
-
It expands and contracts and gives birth to gods, ghosts, angels, avatars, saints, sinners, garlands, and garbage cans.

After reading that, I feel like more safe to take refuge in Scientology's Xenu



Regarding Bante Sujato's book, I haven't read it before. However, with what you said in mind, searching Bhikkhu Sujato's Digha Nikaya using the words "neuro, neuroscience, gene, genetic, quantum, bang (just please kindly forget about the sizes ) etc., I am pleasantly relieved to find only a handful of such kind of words "interstellar" and "infinite space" plus "Terminator";and, IMHO, they are used within the cultural context of Buddha's time. I am totally ok with Bante's translation regarding these terms.

I can't believe you actually read it.

I'm at the point now I don't search for much outside of Theravada.

Maybe a bit of zen because its aesthetically cute.

Plus a guy who wants to recruit people over the internet I find to be so foreign to Buddhism that its offputting right off the bat.

Here is another scifi, goofy translation from the Sujato group:

‘It’s impossible for two perfected ones, fully awakened Buddhas to arise in the same solar system at the same time. But it is possible for just one perfected one, a fully awakened Buddha, to arise in one solar system.’

https://suttacentral.net/mn115/en/sujato


Does this mean there is a Buddha just beyond the reach of Pluto right now?

Its NOT a good translation.

Sujato watched too much Star Trek as a kid.
....
And then of course the "interstellar"

facepalm.

Then there is the whole "Christianity uses words such as..." but then to use words such as "sin" and "mendicant"

I would rate the Bikkhu Bodhi translations as excellent, the Thanissaro as top rate, and the Sujato translations as incredibly poor.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,



Just a reminder that off-topic conversation may be removed, merged or split off by moderators without notice.

Or you could make things easier for our volunteer moderators by starting new topics whenever you want to deviate from the existing topic.



Metta,
Paul.

[Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta]

solar system

I haven't read the whole book of Bante, just checked for the words by the search box and skimmed a few lines surrounding the words.

Agreed. There should be a better word than solar system. Buddha was addressing the mendicants, so it should be a word suited for them at the time. Not "a sun centered world' like solar system; it should be more like "earth-centered world" or something like that, according to the perspectives of mendicants.

[form]

Yes. Two teenager aliens. Or maybe not, some insects or bacterias that are still not born.

[form]

solar system

I haven't read the whole book of Bante, just checked for the words by the search box and skimmed a few lines surrounding the words.

Agreed. There should be a better word than solar system. Buddha was addressing the mendicants, so it should be a word suited for them at the time. Not "a sun centered world' like solar system; it should be more like "earth-centered world" or something like that, according to the perspectives of mendicants.

The Buddha thought that the sun moves around Earth. He is not even aware that all planets revolved by themselves?

[Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta]

The Buddha thought that the sun moves around Earth. He is not even aware that all planets revolved by themselves?

I'm desperately trying hard to be on topic: "future parents"


That's why they are classified by Buddha as conventional realities:
-like a Flat-earth (antient people genuinely meant it at their time),
-like "Atom is indivisible" was absolutely true at some time in the past, but no longer true anymore these days


-like, for us, the fact that "fathers and mothers are real humans" is absolutely true for us; however, there may be (just may be) a time in the future (and, the future is now for some animals I thinks) when, fathers and mothers might become just a few meticulously chosen strands of DNA (or chromosomes).

The conventional realities/truths are "absolutely" true only depending upon the context. Even, today in 2019, conventional truths among different cultures and belief-systems are totally different. For translating Buddha's teachings, one should consider interpreting from that perspective rather than from the perspectives of modern conventional realities.

IMHO, to put that into consideration, I'm absolutely certain (as far as my small brain allows) that Buddha's teachings (includings some [if not all] later commentaries) are 100 % internally consistent. And, that internal consistency alone is already enough for true liberation.

And, that is my idea of Theravada - as far as the future parents are concerned


metta,

[form]

The Buddha thought that the sun moves around Earth. He is not even aware that all planets revolved by themselves?

I'm desperately trying hard to be on topic: "future parents"


That's why they are classified by Buddha as conventional realities:
-like a Flat-earth (antient people genuinely meant it at their time),
-like "Atom is indivisible" was absolutely true at some time in the past, but no longer true anymore these days


-like, for us, the fact that "fathers and mothers are real humans" is absolutely true for us; however, there may be (just may be) a time in the future (and, the future is now for some animals I thinks) when, fathers and mothers might become just a few meticulously chosen strands of DNA (or chromosomes).

The conventional realities/truths are "absolutely" true only depending upon the context. Even, today in 2019, conventional truths among different cultures and belief-systems are totally different. For translating Buddha's teachings, one should consider interpreting from that perspective rather than from the perspectives of modern conventional realities.

IMHO, to put that into consideration, I'm absolutely certain (as far as my small brain allows) that Buddha's teachings (includings some [if not all] later commentaries) are 100 % internally consistent. And, that internal consistency alone is already enough for true liberation.

And, that is my idea of Theravada - as far as the future parents are concerned


metta,

Ok man. On this topic. If you can accept consciousness transmigrate at the instant of death to a new body or formless destination. My theory is it will be attracted to a vibrations that matches its vibrations at death. Another point is that father and mother is something significant, cannot be reduced to just biologically, i said this because, killing own father or mother is kamically very heavy.

[sentinel]

Ok man. On this topic. If you can accept consciousness transmigrate at the instant of death to a new body or formless destination. My theory is it will be attracted to a vibrations that matches its vibrations at death. Another point is that father and mother is something significant, cannot be reduced to just biologically, i said this because, killing own father or mother is kamically very heavy.

The consciousness does not migrate .
It would seems the consciousness existed if there are six sense base , they will be five aggregates at any time . The consciousness always attached to the other four aggregates .

The future parents are not something fixed .
For deva spontaneously born are without parents , deva could born out from a flower .

[Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta]

On this topic.

Apology for any possible differences in views. This is much more of a self-talk than a true reply/answer, while contemplating on what you have written.

If you can accept consciousness transmigrate at the instant of death to a new body or formless destination.

- From my experience, genuine acceptance and appreciation of Buddha's teachings can only come from learning intellectually, contemplating on what have been learned, and practicing dhamma in accordance with it. They act as complementaries. I would say a certain level of right view (not blind faith) is essential as a preliminary step before practicing vipassana to a certain level; a huge amout of right view is needed for practicing a huge amount of vipassana. Because, without the right view vipassana can go astray at any level and there are so many examples.

- That said, in Theravada buddhism, there is NO such thing as "transmigration of consciousness" in any stage in samsara or rebirth (Yayyy , I think I'm ) . To know it experientially while in the very early steps on the path, I think, I may safely recommend Pa-Auk tradition, among others.

"My theory is it will be attracted to a vibrations that matches its vibrations at death."

- Personally (for me), I have many wrong theories (in the past as well as in the very moment while writing this) which will become collapsed when exposed to more dhamma. I have my fair share of theories from which I still can't escape, but I don't "believe" them any more.
- I no longer (as far as I can) test my theories using dhamma. Because, my theories have always and consistently proven to be wrong in the light of dhamma. These days, I only try to " test"my understanding of Buddha's teachings (not my theories) through dhamma practice.
- To be on the true path, vibrations should be dealt with in terms of ultimate realities. "Vibrations" per se is not among ultimate realities and not true object of true vipassana nanas.

Another point is that father and mother is something significant, cannot be reduced to just biologically, i said this because, killing own father or mother is kamically very heavy.

- I agree in the sense that conventional realities are very important.

(And, I genuinely and deeply love my mom and dad)

- The utmost importance of conventional realities can be pointed out by the brahmavihāras. The objects of brahmavihāras (bhavana) always belongs only to conventional realities.

# my thinking out loud / self-talk

Thanks,


Metta,

[form]

Hello James and Sabbe,
Thanks for your replies. I have always wanted to hear other views on what i have written above. Those are what i have read and learned before.

[Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta]

[SarathW]

Ok man. On this topic. If you can accept consciousness transmigrate at the instant of death to a new body or formless destination. My theory is it will be attracted to a vibrations that matches its vibrations at death. Another point is that father and mother is something significant, cannot be reduced to just biologically, i said this because, killing own father or mother is kamically very heavy.

The consciousness does not migrate .
It would seems the consciousness existed if there are six sense base , they will be five aggregates at any time . The consciousness always attached to the other four aggregates .

The future parents are not something fixed .
For deva spontaneously born are without parents , deva could born out from a flower .

Good point.
But the flower still has to be there. (before the birth)