In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?

In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

not applicable, there is no rebirth, it is annihilation for all
4
2%
no more becoming, non-existence as we know it but not annihilation since there is no self
71
38%
existence in a buddha-field / realm
9
5%
pantheism
9
5%
citta continues in paranibbana
21
11%
a subtle existence that is ineffable, inexpressible
31
17%
don't know or agnostic about it, set-aside for now
42
22%
 
Total votes: 187

pegembara
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by pegembara »

Permanent cessation of the world. The fire has gone out permanently.
Yet it is just within this fathom-long body, with its perception & intellect, that I declare that there is the cosmos, the origination of the cosmos, the cessation of the cosmos, and the path of practice leading to the cessation of the cosmos."
“And what have I declared? ‘This is suffering’—I have declared.This is the origin of suffering’—I have declared. ‘This is the cessation of suffering’—I have declared. ‘This is the way leading to the cessation of suffering’—I have declared.

“Why have I declared that? Because it is beneficial, it belongs to the fundamentals of the holy life, it leads to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to peace, to direct knowledge, to enlightenment, to Nibbāna. That is why I have declared it.
"Monks, the All is aflame. What All is aflame? The eye is aflame. Forms are aflame. Consciousness at the eye is aflame. Contact at the eye is aflame. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too is aflame. Aflame with what? Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion. Aflame, I tell you, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs.

"The ear is aflame. Sounds are aflame...

"The nose is aflame. Aromas are aflame...

"The tongue is aflame. Flavors are aflame...

"The body is aflame. Tactile sensations are aflame...

"The intellect is aflame. Ideas are aflame. Consciousness at the intellect is aflame. Contact at the intellect is aflame. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the intellect — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too is aflame. Aflame with what? Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion. Aflame, I say, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs.
There is the case where a monk is an arahant whose fermentations have ended, who has reached fulfillment, finished the task, laid down the burden, attained the true goal, ended the fetter of becoming, and is released through right gnosis. For him, all that is sensed, being unrelished, will grow cold right here. This is termed the Unbinding property with no fuel remaining.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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cappuccino
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by cappuccino »

pegembara wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:20 am The fire has gone out permanently.
Yes and so you feel good
pegembara
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by pegembara »

cappuccino wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:04 pm
pegembara wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:20 am The fire has gone out permanently.
Yes and so you feel good
??

If you feel good, be prepared for the not so good!
Cessation of feeling - no good or bad
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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cappuccino
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by cappuccino »

pegembara wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:20 am Cessation of feeling - no good or bad
I don’t expect the goal is … nothing
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by pegembara »

cappuccino wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:26 am
pegembara wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:20 am Cessation of feeling - no good or bad
I don’t expect the goal is … nothing
The goal is to wake up and be free. To understand what is at the very core of experience.
That is all. Parinibbana or "death" is not the goal.
"When he finds estrangement, passion fades out. With the fading of passion, he is liberated. When liberated, there is knowledge that he is liberated. He understands: 'Birth is exhausted, the holy life has been lived out, what can be done is done, of this there is no more beyond.'"

“Just as an oil lamp would burn in dependence on oil & wick and, from the termination of the oil & wick, it would go out unnourished; in the same way, if sensing a feeling limited to the body, he discerns, ‘I am sensing a feeling limited to the body.’ If sensing a feeling limited to life, he discerns, ‘I am sensing a feeling limited to life.’ He discerns, ‘With the break-up of the body, after the termination of life, all that is experienced, not being relished, will grow cold right here.’”

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN22_88.html
What is the goal in your opinion?
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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cappuccino
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by cappuccino »

pegembara wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:50 am What is the goal in your opinion?
all that is experienced, not relished
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by pegembara »

cappuccino wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:09 am
pegembara wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:50 am What is the goal in your opinion?
all that is experienced, not relished
Giving everything back
:anjali:
THROWING IT ALL BACK

Here we come to the last step, the fourth step of the fourth tetrad, the sixteenth step of Anapanasati. It is called patinissagganu­passi (contemplating throwing back). Patinissagga is a funny word. It means to throw back or to give back. When we get to this step we contemplate our throwing back, our returning, of everything to which we once attached. This is step sixteen. (164)

There is a simple metaphor for explaining this step. Throughout our lives we have been thieves. We have been stealing things that exist naturally - in and belonging to nature - namely, the sankhara. We have plundered them and taken them to be our selves and our possessions. We are nothing but thieves. For this we are being punished by dukkha. We suffer dukkha due to all our thieving and attaching. As soon as we observe the way things really are through the succession of steps in this tetrad, we let go. We cease being thieves. We return everything to their original owner ­nature. They belong to nature. Don't claim them to be "I" or "my" ever again! Our goal here is made clear by this metaphor. (165)

https://www.dhammatalks.net/Books3/Bhik ... TURE%20SIX
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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cappuccino
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by cappuccino »

pegembara wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:58 am We cease being thieves.
I don’t agree with this
pegembara
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by pegembara »

cappuccino wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 2:17 am
pegembara wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:58 am We cease being thieves.
I don’t agree with this
How so? Is there anything you can truly claim as yours?
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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cappuccino
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by cappuccino »

pegembara wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 4:32 am How so?
The source of the idea… is not Buddha

The Thief of a Scent

:shrug:
pegembara
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by pegembara »

cappuccino wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 4:55 am
pegembara wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 4:32 am How so?
The source of the idea… is not Buddha

The Thief of a Scent

:shrug:
Nevertheless, they still don't belong to anyone. If you claim them to be yours, that is akin to stealing.
Don't you agree?
You sniff this water-born flower
that hasn't been given to you.
This, dear sir, is a factor of stealing.
You are a thief of a scent.

When a bhikkhu has heard that "nothing whatsoever should be clung to," he directly knows everything; having directly known everything, he fully understands everything; having fully understood everything, whatever feeling he feels, whether pleasant or painful or neutral, he abides contemplating impermanence in those feelings, contemplating fading away, contemplating cessation, contemplating relinquishment. Contemplating thus, he does not cling to anything in the world. When he does not cling, he is not agitated. When he is not agitated, he personally attains Nibbana… Briefly, it is in this way, ruler of gods, that a bhikkhu is liberated by the destruction of craving, one who has reached the ultimate end, the ultimate security from bondage, the ultimate holy life, the ultimate goal, one who is foremost among gods and humans.

Cūḷataṇhāsankhaya Sutta (‘The Shorter Discourse on the Destruction of Craving’) M 37.3
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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cappuccino
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by cappuccino »

pegembara wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:00 am You are a thief of a scent.
pegembara wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:00 am Don't you agree?
No…
pegembara
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by pegembara »

cappuccino wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:01 pm
pegembara wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:00 am You are a thief of a scent.
pegembara wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:00 am Don't you agree?
No…
Alright, the scent is solely for your enjoyment. Exclusively yours. :smile:
The world is yours for the taking. :clap:
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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cappuccino
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by cappuccino »

pegembara wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:40 am :clap:
:coffee:
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tharpa
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by tharpa »

Wasn't this one of those questions (just reworded) that the Buddha refused to answer?
May all beings, in or out of the womb, be well, happy and peaceful.
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