In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?

In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

not applicable, there is no rebirth, it is annihilation for all
4
2%
no more becoming, non-existence as we know it but not annihilation since there is no self
71
38%
existence in a buddha-field / realm
9
5%
pantheism
9
5%
citta continues in paranibbana
21
11%
a subtle existence that is ineffable, inexpressible
31
17%
don't know or agnostic about it, set-aside for now
42
22%
 
Total votes: 187

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Mahabrahma
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Mahabrahma »

As long as it's Buddhist, it's reality.
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
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cappuccino
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by cappuccino »

Mahabrahma wrote: As long as it's Buddhist, it's reality.
Maybe, maybe not.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Mahabrahma »

cappuccino wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:33 am
Mahabrahma wrote: As long as it's Buddhist, it's reality.
Maybe, maybe not.
You know the truth, however, it is fully in you, and that is what shall set you free.
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
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cappuccino
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by cappuccino »

Mahabrahma wrote: truth shall set you free.
:anjali:
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greenjuice
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by greenjuice »

As far as understand it, some Vajrayana (and even some Mahayana) traditions interpret nibbana as liberating the mind from being trapped by suffering and negative emotions (anger, greed, etc) by getting it trained in what is basically vipassana way of experiencing things (in a detached way). This is connected with the view that there is no difference between samsara and nibbana, ie nibbana is not something outside samsara, but something which is to be experience inside it. So, one can go on getting reborn (in human and above spheres) and be in a nibbanic state of mind. IDK if there are any Theravada traditions which interpret nibbana in that way..
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dhammacoustic
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by dhammacoustic »

greenjuice wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:35 pm (...) ie nibbana is not something outside samsara, but something which is to be experience inside it.
samsara surpassing nibbana is the sassatavadin view, which was rejected by the buddha.
So, one can go on getting reborn (in human and above spheres) and be in a nibbanic state of mind.
makes no sense according to how the buddha describes nibbana.

metta :)
Zenny
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Zenny »

A mental state of happiness.
Fluctuating but Eternal.
Non buddhist Zen Practitioner.
Focus!
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cappuccino
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by cappuccino »

It is the Unformed, the Unconditioned, the End,

the Island,
the Refuge, the Beyond.
~ S 43.1-44
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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

Percipient
Saññāsutta
AN 11.7

Ānanda asks the Buddha about a deep state of meditation where all normal perception has ceased, but there is still perception. The Buddha affirms that such a state exists. Ānanda puts the same question to Sāriputta, and gets the same answer.

...

Then Venerable Ānanda went up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to him:

“Could it be, sir, that a mendicant might gain a state of immersion like this? They wouldn’t perceive earth in earth, water in water, fire in fire, or air in air. And they wouldn’t perceive the dimension of infinite space in the dimension of infinite space, the dimension of infinite consciousness in the dimension of infinite consciousness, the dimension of nothingness in the dimension of nothingness, or the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception in the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception. They wouldn’t perceive this world in this world, or the other world in the other world. And they wouldn’t perceive what is seen, heard, thought, known, attained, sought, or explored by the mind. And yet they would still perceive.”

“It could be, Ānanda, that a mendicant might gain a state of immersion like this. They wouldn’t perceive earth in earth, water in water, fire in fire, or air in air. And they wouldn’t perceive the dimension of infinite space in the dimension of infinite space, the dimension of infinite consciousness in the dimension of infinite consciousness, the dimension of nothingness in the dimension of nothingness, or the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception in the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception. They wouldn’t perceive this world in this world, or the other world in the other world. And they wouldn’t perceive what is seen, heard, thought, known, attained, sought, or explored by the mind. And yet they would still perceive.”

“But how could this be, sir?”

“Ānanda, it’s when a mendicant perceives: ‘This is peaceful; this is sublime—that is, the stilling of all activities, the letting go of all attachments, the ending of craving, fading away, cessation, extinguishment.’

https://suttacentral.net/an11.7/en/sujato
:anjali:
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alicem
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by alicem »

How can one reconcile parinibbāna as annihilation with the brahmavihārās if you see sentient beings as impersonal processes that would be better off not existing? How would this be different from nihilism or pessimism?
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mjaviem
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by mjaviem »

alicem wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:54 pm How can one reconcile parinibbāna as annihilation with the brahmavihārās if you see sentient beings as impersonal processes that would be better off not existing? How would this be different from nihilism or pessimism?
Anhilation is wrong view. Impersonal processes are not "better off not existing."

Impersonal processes can be reconciled with the brahmavihārās by understanding that those impersonal process can find benefit and can take harm. You act in their benefit and not for their harm. You shouldn't be pessimistic. You can be joyful when they benefit and you should see them correctly for what they are.
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammā Sambuddhassa
Ontheway
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Ontheway »

Iti 2.17 Nibbānadhātu suttaṃ

This was said by the Blessed One, said by the Arahant, so I have heard: "Monks, there are these two forms of the Unbinding property. Which two? The Unbinding property with fuel remaining, & the Unbinding property with no fuel remaining.

And what is the Unbinding property with fuel remaining? There is the case where a monk is an arahant whose fermentations have ended, who has reached fulfillment, finished the task, laid down the burden, attained the true goal, ended the fetter of becoming, and is released through right gnosis. His five sense faculties still remain and, owing to their being intact, he is cognizant of the agreeable & the disagreeable, and is sensitive to pleasure & pain. His ending of passion, aversion, & delusion is termed the Unbinding property with fuel remaining.[1]

And what is the Unbinding property with no fuel remaining? There is the case where a monk is an arahant whose fermentations have ended, who has reached fulfillment, finished the task, laid down the burden, attained the true goal, ended the fetter of becoming, and is released through right gnosis. For him, all that is sensed, being unrelished, will grow cold right here. This is termed the Unbinding property with no fuel remaining."[2]
These two proclaimed
by the one with vision,
Unbinding properties the one independent,
the one who is Such:[3]
one property, here in this life
with fuel remaining
from the destruction
of the guide to becoming,
and that with no fuel remaining,
after this life,
in which all becoming
totally ceases.

Those who know
this state uncompounded,
their minds released
through the destruction
of the guide to becoming,
they, attaining the Teaching's core,
pleased with ending,
have abandoned all becoming:
they, the Such.
No more assumption or wild guess, the Blessed One defined it clearly. It's up to us now to realise it.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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seeker242
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by seeker242 »

None of the above! Although, 6 would be the closest but still not right because it included "a subtle existence". 2 would be close too, but still not right either because it includes some idea of "non-existence"

So, 6 and remove that part and just leave "ineffable, inexpressible" and that would be the one. :meditate:
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Aloka
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Aloka »

.

The Buddha said :
...remember what I have left undeclared as undeclared, and remember what I have declared as declared. And what have I left undeclared? ‘The world is eternal’—I have left undeclared. ‘The world is not eternal’—I have left undeclared. ‘The world is finite’—I have left undeclared. ‘The world is infinite’—I have left undeclared. ‘The soul is the same as the body’—I have left undeclared. ‘The soul is one thing and the body another’—I have left undeclared.

‘After death a Tathāgata exists’—I have left undeclared. ‘After death a Tathāgata does not exist’—I have left undeclared. ‘After death a Tathāgata both exists and does not exist’—I have left undeclared. ‘After death a Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist’—I have left undeclared.

“Why have I left that undeclared? Because it is unbeneficial, it does not belong to the fundamentals of the holy life, it does not lead to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to peace, to direct knowledge, to enlightenment, to Nibbāna. That is why I have left it undeclared.

https://suttacentral.net/mn63/en/bodhi

:anjali:
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cappuccino
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by cappuccino »

Aloka wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:22 pm ‘After death a Tathāgata does not exist’—I have left undeclared.
:goodpost:
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