It isn't more "mysterious" than "consciousness [or the aggregates]". There is neither scientific evidence for "soul" nor for "consciousness [or the aggregates]" but people are using these expressions as if there would be publically perceptibles rightly labelled with these concepts. A few hundred years ago "soul" has been used as commonly as "consciousness" is used today. It's only cultural linguistic fashion and the aversion against the one or the other expression may be based on mere religious/philosophical dogmatism.cappuccino wrote: ↑Sat Jul 23, 2022 4:15 am how can you identify with soul
since the soul is totally mysterious
Soul theories and the Dhamma
Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
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Goofaholix
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma
Not everyone.
That is an extreme view about people.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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cappuccino
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma
Buddhism teaches the middle way
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cappuccino
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma
Not self is interpreted as no self
No self would imply no soul
Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma
Can't see how your statement refers to the quote of my words
But putting that aside some do interpret the theravadan "not self" is as you say but others do not interpret it as you say.Not necessarily because "self" in "no self" might also refer to the personal autobiographical "self" which might be posited to be different from "soul". Also since "soul" isn't necessarily the meaning of "atman" because it's come up in contexts other than Gautama's time and culture what the theravadan doctrine says about "atman" doesn't necessarily apply to "soul".
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
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Goofaholix
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma
Yes, the middle way eschews extreme views about people, and other things.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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Jack19990101
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma
Soul, Self, personhood, are dependent arising on its conditions.
The condition is there, it will arise & persist, regardless our conscious choice or our like.
Condition is ceased, it will cease accordingly.
Both abstract concepts and names to physicals, are all the same, arise on their respective conditions, regardless will & value judgement.
The condition is there, it will arise & persist, regardless our conscious choice or our like.
Condition is ceased, it will cease accordingly.
Both abstract concepts and names to physicals, are all the same, arise on their respective conditions, regardless will & value judgement.
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cappuccino
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma
The middle is not selfGoofaholix wrote: ↑Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:55 pm Yes, the middle way eschews extreme views about people, and other things.
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Goofaholix
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma
The Middle Way is about the avoidance if the extremes indulgence and ascetism, of excessive effort and complacency.
It's not about compromise pertaining to metaphysics.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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cappuccino
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma
The middle is still not self
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Goofaholix
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma
The beginning, the middle, and the end is not self.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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cappuccino
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Goofaholix
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma
That is too much information, please summarise.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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cappuccino
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma
I don’t want to disagree indefinitely