Soul theories and the Dhamma

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Ontheway
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by Ontheway »

abhidhamma by Tin Mon wrote:
These cittas function as rebirth-consciousness for all living
beings to be reborn in appropriate planes of existence; then they
function as life-continuum for the whole existence of each living
being and finally as death-consciousness of the being.
Nothing here said that there is a Self or Soul.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
Ontheway
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by Ontheway »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:47 pm
Ontheway wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:46 pm I was the one who wrote that sentence?
"I were responding"…… ?
Read again. Or I screenshot it for you.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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cappuccino
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by cappuccino »

Ontheway wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:50 pm Nothing here said that there is a Self or Soul.
You are conflating the two different words and ideas
Ontheway
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by Ontheway »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:51 pm
Ontheway wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:50 pm Nothing here said that there is a Self or Soul.
You are conflating the two different words and ideas
Ok, since you said so...... Go to General forum and make a new thread about it.

Make sure to ask Bhante Dhammanando, Bhante Pesala and other learned ones too.
Last edited by Ontheway on Sat Feb 19, 2022 5:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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cappuccino
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by cappuccino »

Ontheway wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:52 pm Ok, since you said so…
I said and it’s true
Ontheway
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by Ontheway »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:53 pm
Ontheway wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:52 pm Ok, since you said so…
I said and it’s true
You sounds like thepea. "I said so, therefore it is true."

Go make a thread in general board there. Let see what others got to say about your view. Make sure to ask Bhante Dhammanando, Bhante Pesala and other learned ones too.
Last edited by Ontheway on Sat Feb 19, 2022 5:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
auto
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by auto »

Ontheway wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:50 pm
abhidhamma by Tin Mon wrote:
These cittas function as rebirth-consciousness for all living
beings to be reborn in appropriate planes of existence; then they
function as life-continuum for the whole existence of each living
being and finally as death-consciousness of the being.
Nothing here said that there is a Self or Soul.
i wonder do you notice that it is the being who has mind? not the mind having a being?
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cappuccino
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by cappuccino »

Ontheway wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:55 pm Let see what others got to say about your view.
Read the Buddhist scriptures
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Rambutan
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by Rambutan »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:49 pm
Rambutan wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:44 pm
cappuccino wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:38 pm This is not about self, rather soul
Same thing in the buddhist context
No…… not then, not now
Yes it is. It’s a singular, unchanging essence of being that takes rebirth in samsara. You can call it self or soul or atman or unicorn poop. The name isn’t the point. It’s the concept involved, which you refuse to discuss.
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cappuccino
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by cappuccino »

Rambutan wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:56 pm
cappuccino wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:49 pm
Rambutan wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:44 pm Same thing in the buddhist context
No…… not then, not now
Yes it is.
Still no
Ontheway
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by Ontheway »

auto wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:55 pm
Ontheway wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:50 pm
abhidhamma by Tin Mon wrote:
These cittas function as rebirth-consciousness for all living
beings to be reborn in appropriate planes of existence; then they
function as life-continuum for the whole existence of each living
being and finally as death-consciousness of the being.
Nothing here said that there is a Self or Soul.
i wonder do you notice that it is the being who has mind? not the mind having a being?
A Being (be it human, animal, ghost, God, hell beings) is a conventional concept that we have for worldview. In ultimate reality, it is just Citta (aka Viññāṇa), Cetasika (aka Vedanā, Sañña, Saṅkhāra), and Rupa.

I'm sure you read vajirāsutta.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by Ontheway »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:56 pm
Ontheway wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:55 pm Let see what others got to say about your view.
Read the Buddhist scriptures
Which one?
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
auto
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by auto »

Ontheway wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:59 pm A Being (be it human, animal, ghost, God, hell beings) is a conventional concept that we have for worldview. In ultimate reality, it is just Citta (aka Viññāṇa), Cetasika (aka Vedanā, Sañña, Saṅkhāra), and Rupa.

I'm sure you read vajirāsutta.
so the mind has mind?
Do you believe there is only the citta vitthi and bhavanga, nothing else? what is the object then what appears at the sense doors? from where it arises or comes?

vajirasutta? i have my thoughts on it, we talked about it on the two truths thread.
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cappuccino
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by cappuccino »

Ontheway wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 4:01 pm
cappuccino wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:56 pm Read the Buddhist scriptures
Which one?
Yamaka Sutta: To Yamaka

:coffee:
Ontheway
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by Ontheway »

auto wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 4:01 pm
Ontheway wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:59 pm A Being (be it human, animal, ghost, God, hell beings) is a conventional concept that we have for worldview. In ultimate reality, it is just Citta (aka Viññāṇa), Cetasika (aka Vedanā, Sañña, Saṅkhāra), and Rupa.

I'm sure you read vajirāsutta.
so the mind has mind?
No.

The term "a being" is used conventionally to convey meaning in our daily lives... Like this is a man, a woman, a Yakkha, a ghost, a cat, a hell being, etc.

But when we analyse this so-called "a being", it is just made up of five aggregates affected by Clinging in ultimate reality. The formation of these aggregates through conditionality and their combination is what we called "a being" conventionally. Just like we recognise water as "water", but when comes to chemistry class, it is H2O, the combination of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom through atomic interaction between them.

This is why Ven. Vajirā Theri said in Suttanta:
“Why now do you assume ‘a being’?
Mara, is that your speculative view?
This is a heap of sheer formations:
Here no being is found.

“Just as, with an assemblage of parts,
The word ‘chariot’ is used,
So, when the aggregates exist,
There is the convention ‘a being.’

“It’s only suffering that comes to be,
Suffering that stands and falls away.
Nothing but suffering comes to be,
Nothing but suffering ceases.”
*Corrected the science term
Last edited by Ontheway on Sat Feb 19, 2022 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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