Soul theories and the Dhamma

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
ToVincent
Posts: 1839
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:02 pm

Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by ToVincent »

Coëmgenu wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 1:50 pm No "greater metropolitan area!" That's modern Chinese influencing a modern person's reading of classical Chinese!
And would just put the all Agama literature to the drain.
:redherring: as usual.

The issue is about samanupassamānā:
viewtopic.php?p=676142#p676142
.
.
In this world, there are many people acting and yearning for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; and very few for the Unborn.
User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 8151
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by Coëmgenu »

ToVincent wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 2:16 pmAnd would just put the all Agama literature to the drain.
I have no clue what this means. Carry on!
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
ToVincent
Posts: 1839
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:02 pm

Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by ToVincent »

Coëmgenu wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 2:20 pm
ToVincent wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 2:16 pmAnd would just put the all Agama literature to the drain.
I have no clue what this means. Carry on!
Sure, sure.
.
.
In this world, there are many people acting and yearning for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; and very few for the Unborn.
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by Ontheway »

The Buddha states:

“I do not teach that there is one thing called old age and death, and that there is someone to whom they belong. Verily, if one holds the view that life (jiva=life principle, soul) is identical with the body (tam jivam tam sariram), in that case there can be no holy life. And if one holds the view that life is one thing but body another thing (annam jivam annam sariram), also in that case holy life is impossible.

Avoiding both of these extremes (i.e. complete identity and complete otherness) the Perfect One has taught the doctrine that lies in the middle, namely: Through rebirth conditioned are old age and death; …through the process of becoming, rebirth; …through clinging, the process of becoming;
etc.….” S. XII, 35

Essentials of Buddhism by Ven. Pategama Gnanarama Thera (PhD, Principal Buddhist and Pali College of Singapore), page 45

By this alone, cappuccino is defeated.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12879
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by cappuccino »

Ontheway wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 10:59 am By this alone, cappuccino is defeated.
you should not believe in annihilation
wenjaforever
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue May 24, 2022 4:44 am

Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by wenjaforever »

Ontheway wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 10:59 am
The Buddha states:

“I do not teach that there is one thing called old age and death, and that there is someone to whom they belong. Verily, if one holds the view that life (jiva=life principle, soul) is identical with the body (tam jivam tam sariram), in that case there can be no holy life. And if one holds the view that life is one thing but body another thing (annam jivam annam sariram), also in that case holy life is impossible.

Avoiding both of these extremes (i.e. complete identity and complete otherness) the Perfect One has taught the doctrine that lies in the middle, namely: Through rebirth conditioned are old age and death; …through the process of becoming, rebirth; …through clinging, the process of becoming; etc.….” S. XII, 35
Essentials of Buddhism by Ven. Pategama Gnanarama Thera (PhD, Principal Buddhist and Pali College of Singapore), page 45

By this alone, cappuccino is defeated.
I approve this, this is great stuff. The Buddha is awesome. But personally I believe that the soul is a magical bucket not to contain memories but rather karma.
money is worthless toilet paper • the tongue has no bone (a person might say one thing but it cannot be further from the truth) • you cannot teach a goat math as in you cannot teach the dhamma to a dumb person
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12879
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by cappuccino »

wenjaforever wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:40 am But personally I believe that the soul is a magical bucket
Perhaps it is
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by Ontheway »

Believing the existence of a soul is Sakkāyadiṭṭhi.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12879
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by cappuccino »

Ontheway wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:06 am Believing the existence of a soul is Sakkāyadiṭṭhi.
I do not fancy I know what I do not know. ―Socrates
Spiny Norman
Posts: 10184
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by Spiny Norman »

Ontheway wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:06 am Believing the existence of a soul is Sakkāyadiṭṭhi.
Indeed it is. Nothing wrong with soul belief (whatever), but it's not Buddhism.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12879
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by cappuccino »

Spiny Norman wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:54 pm Nothing wrong with soul belief, but it's not Buddhism.
There is nothing against it, nor for it

:shrug:
User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by Goofaholix »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:21 pm There is nothing against it, nor for it

:shrug:
There is nothing against, nor for female orgasm either. Yet surprising we don't have a 55 pager thread called "Female orgasm theories and the Dhamma".
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12879
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by cappuccino »

Goofaholix wrote: Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:27 pm Yet surprising we don't have a thread called
Everyone thinks in extremes
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by SteRo »

Ontheway wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:06 am Believing the existence of a soul is Sakkāyadiṭṭhi.
Not necessarily. The context between "soul" and "self" is no other than the context between "consciousness [or the aggregates]" and "self". Sakkāyadiṭṭhi is holding the view "I am it" and/or "this is mine" and can be present or absent referring to both, "soul" and "consciousness [or the aggregates]". So even though one may believe in the existence of "soul" or in the existence of "consciousness [or the aggregates]" one doesn't necessarily have to hold the belief "I am it" and/or "this is mine" with reference to "soul" or "consciousness [or the aggregates]".
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12879
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma

Post by cappuccino »

how can you identify with soul


since the soul is totally mysterious
Post Reply