Anchoring of mindfulness [at the nose tip or on the upper lip] is not the Goenka's method?

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SarathW
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Anchoring of mindfulness [at the nose tip or on the upper lip] is not the Goenka's method?

Post by SarathW »

There is a general understanding that anchoring of mindfulness at the nose tip or on the upper lip is the Goenka's invention.
I found reference to this in Patisambhidhamagga.
Does this mean this method is a recommended method in Patisambhidamagga?
Perhaps Goenka is the one who make it popular.
The question is where in the Sutta the method of anchoring of mindfulness in nose tip is mentioned?
===============

As the tree trunk placed on the level piece of ground, so the sign for the
anchoring of mindfulness [at the nose tip or on the upper lip]. As the saw's
teeth, so the in-breaths and out-breaths. As the man's mindfulness,
established by the saw's teeth where they touch the tree trunk, without his
giving attention to the saw's teeth as they approach and recede, though they
are not unrecognized by him as they do so, and so he manifests endeavour,
carries out a task and achieves a distinctive effect, so too the bhikkhu sits,
having established mindfulness at the nose tip [where the breath touches (i.e.
is felt) if breathing through the nose] or on the upper lip [where the breath
touches (i.e. is felt) if breathing through the mouth], without giving attention
to the in-breaths and out-breaths as they approach and recede, though they
are not unrecognized by him as they do so, and he manifests endeavour,
carries out a task and achieves a distinctive effect.


https://centrebouddhistetheravada.files ... kattha.pdf
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
thepea
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Re: Anchoring of mindfulness [at the nose tip or on the upper lip] is not the Goenka's method?

Post by thepea »

is there not a sutta about a skilled carpenter marking the wood with saw where it is to be cut, so should meditator mark the place where touch of breath makes contact??
santa100
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Re: Anchoring of mindfulness [at the nose tip or on the upper lip] is not the Goenka's method?

Post by santa100 »

From KN's Patisambhidamagga (Ps 1.3 - Anapanassatikatha):
Suppose there were a tree trunk placed on a level piece of ground, and a mancut it with a saw. The man's mindfulness is established by the saw's teethwhere they touch the tree trunk, without his giving attention to the saw's teethas they approach and recede, though they are not unrecognized by him asthey do so; and he manifests endeavour, carries out a task and achieves adistinctive effect.As the tree trunk placed on the level piece of ground, so the sign for theanchoring of mindfulness [at the nose tip or on the upper lip]. As the saw'steeth, so the in-breaths and out-breaths. As the man's mindfulness,established by the saw's teeth where they touch the tree trunk, without hisgiving attention to the saw's teeth as they approach and recede, though theyare not unrecognized by him as they do so, and so he manifests endeavour,carries out a task and achieves a distinctive effect, so too the bhikkhu sits,having established mindfulness at the nose tip [where the breath touches (i.e.is felt) if breathing through the nose] or on the upper lip [where the breathtouches (i.e. is felt) if breathing through the mouth], without giving attentionto the in-breaths and out-breaths as they approach and recede, though theyare not unrecognized by him as they do so, and he manifests endeavour,carries out a task and achieves a distinctive effec
SarathW
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Re: Anchoring of mindfulness [at the nose tip or on the upper lip] is not the Goenka's method?

Post by SarathW »

Thanks Santa.
So the simile of the saw and the keeping mindfulness at the tip of the nose or on the upper lip is coming from the Patisambhidamagga.
Again, I raised this question as I can recall there were some discussion with disagreements about this method.
Last week I started my meditation with this method which produced very encouraging results.
So I wish to know more about this method and it's source.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
santa100
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Re: Anchoring of mindfulness [at the nose tip or on the upper lip] is not the Goenka's method?

Post by santa100 »

There'll always be discussions and disagreements on everything. So, what matters is what works for you best. Ps. and Vism. should give abundant info. on Anapanasati with keeping attention at the tip of the nose or the upper lip.
SarathW
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Re: Anchoring of mindfulness [at the nose tip or on the upper lip] is not the Goenka's method?

Post by SarathW »

What is the history of Patisambhidamagga?
Is this found in the first council?

Link:
https://www.urbandharma.org/pdf1/Mindfu ... athing.pdf
Last edited by SarathW on Fri May 26, 2017 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Goofaholix
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Re: Anchoring of mindfulness [at the nose tip or on the upper lip] is not the Goenka's method?

Post by Goofaholix »

SarathW wrote:There is a general understanding that anchoring of mindfulness at the nose tip or on the upper lip is the Goenka's invention.
I'd be surprised if that were true, for a start Goenka taught the technique his teacher taught him.
“What we call "I" is just a swinging door which moves when we inhale and when we exhale.”
― Shunryu Suzuki
justindesilva
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Re: Anchoring of mindfulness [at the nose tip or on the upper lip] is not the Goenka's method?

Post by justindesilva »

thepea wrote:is there not a sutta about a skilled carpenter marking the wood with saw where it is to be cut, so should meditator mark the place where touch of breath makes contact??
With respect to this instead of the skilled carpenter The anapanasati sutta is a detailed analysis of the meditation.
Further I followed a program to the effect to concentrate on the place the inhalation first strike even if it is inside the left or the right innerside of the nosstril as it varies time to time. What is important is to keep the mind on the breath as a body and concentrate on where this body strikes on entering the nostril. This body may change its striking place. KEEP THE MIND TRACKED. Not the breath.
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