Is Magga-Phalla (cessation) required for Stream Entry?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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JinxedP
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Is Magga-Phalla (cessation) required for Stream Entry?

Post by JinxedP »

From the point of view of Theravada, is a cessation experience required for stream entry? If so, what is the scriptural basis for this?

Or can one be a stream-enterer, without having had a cessation?

Can someone point to me where in the suttas or commentaries the cessation/stream entry experience is talked about?
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Re: Is Magga-Phalla (cessation) required for Stream Entry?

Post by DNS »

Magga-phala refers to 'path and fruit' so a sotapanna would have sotapatti magga and its resultant phala (fruit).

Nirodha-samāpatti (cessation attainment) generally refers to the state beyond the 4 jhanas, beyond the 4 formless realms (sometimes referred to as the 5th to 8th jhanas); so cessation is sometimes called the "9th jhana" although the Suttas refer to only four jhanas, modern authors have referred to them this way for ease in seeing the transition from jhanas to formless realms to cessation. There are various opinions and interpretations as to which jhanas (if any) need mastery before one reaches certain noble levels, but I believe most state that it is anagamis (non-returners) and arahants who have mastery of nirodha-samāpatti.
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Re: Is Magga-Phalla (cessation) required for Stream Entry?

Post by Disciple »

Apart from perfecting the 5 precepts and faith in the three gems I don't think you need much else.
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Re: Is Magga-Phalla (cessation) required for Stream Entry?

Post by paul »

In practice, the path in Buddhism is gradual and cessation is no exception, when stream-entry is achieved the mind turns toward cessation for the first time. To do this conformity with the fixed path is necessary as the path must arise before fruition can be achieved. Conformity knowledge is contingent upon comprehending formations through the characteristics of impermanence etc. Again this is achieved gradually through developing the nine insight knowledges.
This is the view from the Visuddhimagga.
Cessation here means releasing clinging and activating the Four Noble Truths, Vism. XXII:97.
Last edited by paul on Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:51 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Assaji
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Re: Is Magga-Phalla (cessation) required for Stream Entry?

Post by Assaji »

JinxedP wrote:From the point of view of Theravada, is a cessation experience required for stream entry?
No. Moreover, the term 'cessation' (nirodha) doesn't denote anything specific in Theravada, - and in English. Cessation needs to be specified - what exactly ceases? Cessation of suffering (dukkha-nirodha) and cessation of recognition and sensation (sanna-vedayita nirodha) are very different phenomena.
If so, what is the scriptural basis for this?
There's no scriptural basis for this, "cessation" as a term in iteslf is a purely modern invention by Brahmavamso and Culadasa.

Unfortunately, the usage of such term conflates all the different kinds of scriptural "nirodha" into one, and thus makes for a huge mess.
Or can one be a stream-enterer, without having had a cessation?
Surely one can be a stream-enterer withoud having had a nonsensical term in the mind.

http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/s_t/sotaapanna.htm

It's like "can one be a fisherman without having had a beginning?"
Can someone point to me where in the suttas or commentaries the cessation/stream entry experience is talked about?
On various kinds of "nirodha":

http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/a/ ... irodha.htm
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