400 Noble Truths
Re: 400 Noble Truths
I think it is a complete minsunderstanding of the essential teaching sorry but maybe you do not have the data to put it into proper context.
- Nicholas Weeks
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Re: 400 Noble Truths
(May regret this, but...) What is the it being misunderstood and what is the essential teaching.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
- Nicholas Weeks
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Re: 400 Noble Truths
So among some Mahayana extrapolated thoughts there are Path & Practice worthy words & deeds?Kim OHara wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:19 am
I would have said, rather, that the Four Truths have more and deeper meanings than Buddha had time to teach, and that they are relevant or helpful on the Path but they are all consistent with the 4NT and can all be extrapolated from them (with enough thought, naturally).
Kim
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
Re: 400 Noble Truths
Four Noble Truths. What is a truth and what makes a truth Noble. I am not saying it is a bad teaching but it is not the teaching on The Noble Truths, lacks the characteristics, only title is same imo.
I can explain quickly what i think is lacking;
Aspect of causality is not expressed in 2nd & 4rd
Aspect of non-impermanence is not expressed in 3rd
First at least mentions "change" albeit in wrong context.
Last edited by User1249x on Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Nicholas Weeks
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Re: 400 Noble Truths
It is NOT the truth that is Noble, but the noble character of the one who studies & practices them.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
Re: 400 Noble Truths
I don't even want to discuss it, i am glad you have affection for the Tathagata and interested and/or practicing meditation. Let's leave it at that.
- Nicholas Weeks
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Re: 400 Noble Truths
As you wish, but for others who may be interested...
Maybe a metaphor will clarify - To we worldlings water differs from ice and ice differs from steam. Yet a wiser Arya type knows that all are H2O. There are hidden aspects of the Four Truths that only an Arya mind & heart can fully understand.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
Re: 400 Noble Truths
By all means do discuss i just think i should disengange because i tend to get emotional in these discussions.Will wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:05 amAs you wish, but for others who may be interested...
Maybe a metaphor will clarify - To we worldlings water differs from ice and ice differs from steam. Yet a wiser Arya type knows that all are H2O. There are hidden aspects of the Four Truths that only an Arya mind & heart can fully understand.
Fwiw How i understand the 4NT;
- First Noble Truth: Changing & possible. (proclaiming existence of Samsara) [Suffering]
Second Noble Truth: Change is caused, not uncaused (proclaiming causal nature of Samsara) [dependent origination]
Third Noble Truth: uncaused & possible (proclaiming existence of the Not-Impermanent&Possible[Nibbana])
Fourth Noble Truth: Exhaustion of causes is caused, not uncaused (proclaiming causal nature of the Cessation of Suffering) [8FNP]
So the Tathagata is proclaiming a comperhensive model of the system in which all gains footing.
I am curious about what you make of this.
Last edited by User1249x on Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 400 Noble Truths
what i meant by this is that perhaps there is something we both are missing that which puts what you wrote into proper context.
Re: 400 Noble Truths
Yes, I think so.Will wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:45 amSo among some Mahayana extrapolated thoughts there are Path & Practice worthy words & deeds?Kim OHara wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:19 am
I would have said, rather, that the Four Truths have more and deeper meanings than Buddha had time to teach, and that they are relevant or helpful on the Path but they are all consistent with the 4NT and can all be extrapolated from them (with enough thought, naturally).
Kim
I know I'm in the minority in the way I understand the relationship between Theravada and Mahayana teachings but I have said before (and might as well say again) that if we think of Buddhism as a field of study in the Western sense, rather than a religion, then the Pali canon stands out as the work of the first great master of the field (a Galileo, Newton or Mendel). The Mahayana teachings then fall into place as further developments - not always exactly in line with the original teaching, perhaps, but built on its foundations to the best of the ability of people who followed after the Buddha.
And that looks like what we've got here, doesn't it?
Kim
Re: 400 Noble Truths
I think of it as a formulae, in a completely scientific way that is, a map of sorts;
it's like a manual to life, means of understanding oneself and the enviroment completelyformula dictionary.com
1.
a set form of words, as for stating or declaring something definitely or authoritatively, for indicating procedure to be followed, or for prescribed use on some ceremonial occasion.
2.
any fixed or conventional method for doing something:
His mystery stories were written according to a popular formula.
3.
Mathematics.
a rule or principle, frequently expressed in algebraic symbols.
such a symbolic expression.
Re: 400 Noble Truths
So , what you called Formula , what you regard as Principle , may not be the same if Conditions change .
For example , take the solid-state of the stone , we may regard it as something Solid , but , for the deva there is No Hardness !
For example , take the solid-state of the stone , we may regard it as something Solid , but , for the deva there is No Hardness !
Re: 400 Noble Truths
my understanding of it surely will change, what is ultimately possible and impossible wont change
Re: 400 Noble Truths
Re: 400 Noble Truths
what do you mean?
By what i said i meant that it will never be possible for a formation to be permanent, that is impossible and will remain so.
Last edited by User1249x on Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.