Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?

[Disciple]

It seems many monks are smokers... can't get rid of the behaviour, can they?

This looks so wrong

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

Quit meaning refers to Permanent leaving.

Didn't the Buddha say something about all conditions being impermanent?

It seems to me that only Non-returners and Arahants are permanently free from craving. Everyone else still has a latent tendency to sensual enjoyment.

Someone who has smoked heavily (20 a day) for a number of years is like a recovering alcoholic. They have to remain vigilant for the rest of their life. As long as they remain in a supportive environment where no one else smokes, they may find it easy, but if their circumstances change, they could resume smoking again.

[dharmacorps]

What Bhante has said is definitely true. Anyone who has watched closely someone trying to quit smoking can see how bad the addiction is. My father tried for years to quit when I was a child. He and my mother agreed to quit when she was pregnant with me. It took till I was 5 years old for him to finally be done with the habit. He experienced such bad Nic fits he would vomit, have headaches, etc. Granted, he was a 2.5 pack a day smoker for maybe 15 years but still.

[tharpa]

I have read on this forum that smoking tobacco ciggarettes is not a breach of the 5th precept. Others disagree.

Is smoking tobacco a breach of the 5th precept or not?

How about e-ciggarettes (vaping)?

The literalists (and I am one) say that it is not a breach of the fifth precept. The fifth precept prohibits distilled and fermented beverages.

Smoking may be against the spirit of the 5th precept, though, just as the purchase of animal flesh from an unbroken economic chain leading back to the killer is a violation of the spirit of the 1st precept, for one who understands the economic chain of causation.

[jc1990]

yes, it is a drug.

[tharpa]

I have read on this forum that smoking tobacco ciggarettes is not a breach of the 5th precept. Others disagree.

Is smoking tobacco a breach of the 5th precept or not?

How about e-ciggarettes (vaping)?

The literalists (and I am one) say that it is not a breach of the fifth precept. The fifth precept prohibits distilled and fermented beverages.

Tobacco did not exist in India in the Buddha's time, so he could not have made a precept against it.

Smoking may be against the spirit of the 5th precept, though, just as the purchase of animal flesh from an unbroken economic chain leading back to the killer is a violation of the spirit of the 1st precept, for one who understands the economic chain of causation.

[TRobinson465]

I would say it is because its ultimately the intention and most people smoke in order to have some kind of recreational alteration of the mind. I think its kinda silly to say that the 5th precept only means alcohol specifically. But eitherway, i would advise agaisnt it even if it didnt violate the 5th precept as human existence is extremely precious, especially if you happen to know about the Dhamma, and you shouldnt do things that shorten it.

[jc1990]

I believe yes, as it's a drug, please correct me if i'm wrong.

[Gwi II]

Cigarettes r prohibited for these five:
(a) childrens, (b) smoking too much,
(c) vaping, (d) cigarettes containing
drugs, and (e) for women (because it
is seen as [very] bad by many people).
BUT, STAY AWAY FROM CIGARETTES!


In Vinayo, it is FORBIDDEN! Although it does not
violate the precepts, it is prohibited for bhikkhus.
So, lay people should (also) avoid it. Just as horse
meat is prohibited for bhikkhus, lay people should
(also) not eat horse meat even though the meat is
permitted. Some rules for bhikkhus must be obeyed
by the faithful.

Source (screenshot):
The Great Chronicle of Buddhas, page 1046.

[BrokenBones]

Cigarettes r prohibited for these five:
(a) childrens, (b) smoking too much,
(c) vaping, (d) cigarettes containing
drugs, and (e) for women (because it
is seen as [very] bad by many people).
BUT, STAY AWAY FROM CIGARETTES!


In Vinayo, it is FORBIDDEN! Although it does not
violate the precepts, it is prohibited for bhikkhus.
So, lay people should (also) avoid it. Just as horse
meat is prohibited for bhikkhus, lay people should
(also) not eat horse meat even though the meat is
permitted. Some rules for bhikkhus must be obeyed
by the faithful.

Source (screenshot):
The Great Chronicle of Buddhas, page 1046.

As a child eating school meals in the Uk in the sixties I'm sure I've eaten large amounts of horse meat

Smoking might be a nasty little habit but I can't see it as any different from coffee drinking or eating chocolate.

Put it this way; when have you heard of someone smoking a packet of cigarettes and then beating up their spouse because of its 'mind altering' effect... now booze on the other hand...

It's habit forming; as is masturbation, food addictions, binge tv, exercise, forum posting... the list is endless and no matter how much it goes against our personal sensitivities and biases... they don't in themselves break the precept.

[Gwi II]

Cigarettes r prohibited for these five:
(a) childrens, (b) smoking too much,
(c) vaping, (d) cigarettes containing
drugs, and (e) for women (because it
is seen as [very] bad by many people).
BUT, STAY AWAY FROM CIGARETTES!


In Vinayo, it is FORBIDDEN! Although it does not
violate the precepts, it is prohibited for bhikkhus.
So, lay people should (also) avoid it. Just as horse
meat is prohibited for bhikkhus, lay people should
(also) not eat horse meat even though the meat is
permitted. Some rules for bhikkhus must be obeyed
by the faithful.

Source (screenshot):
The Great Chronicle of Buddhas, page 1046.

As a child eating school meals in the Uk in the sixties I'm sure I've eaten large amounts of horse meat

Smoking might be a nasty little habit but I can't see it as any different from coffee drinking or eating chocolate.

Put it this way; when have you heard of someone smoking a packet of cigarettes and then beating up their spouse because of its 'mind altering' effect... now booze on the other hand...

It's habit forming; as is masturbation, food addictions, binge tv, exercise, forum posting... the list is endless and no matter how much it goes against our personal sensitivities and biases... they don't in themselves break the precept.

In Islam, smoking is MAKRUH
(literally means something
“disliked” or “undesirable”).

Mast*rbation = makruh
Watch po*n = makruh, etc.

I even argued with a Muslim,
he said HARAM (forbidden),
I said that (makruh).

I said "cigarettes" are prohibited in those
5 cases and for nonsmokers, don't smoke.

[AgarikaJ]

I have read on this forum that smoking tobacco ciggarettes is not a breach of the 5th precept. Others disagree.

Is smoking tobacco a breach of the 5th precept or not?

How about e-ciggarettes (vaping)?

The literalists (and I am one) say that it is not a breach of the fifth precept. The fifth precept prohibits distilled and fermented beverages.

Smoking may be against the spirit of the 5th precept, though, just as the purchase of animal flesh from an unbroken economic chain leading back to the killer is a violation of the spirit of the 1st precept, for one who understands the economic chain of causation.

To me the question is: is smoking a mind-altering action?

There are two schools of thought: with developing your practice towards enlightenment, the mind becomes less prone to distraction, so should become better safeguarded against the effects of drugs (we saw that in the discussion around Ajahn Maha Bua or Ajahn Chah smoking).

I personally am at a stage of practice, where my mind seems more fragile and the potential of substances to disturb it seems a lot more pronounced than they would have in the past. Extrapolating this, then nicotine would surely be a problem, but so then might be caffeine or sugar.

My perspective: it is important to discern, what usage the keeping of the Precepts has: they are tools to improve personal practice, not universally usable legal paragraphs (and especially not to judge others).

As such, I am not minding seeing monks smoke, it is their own business (and they must know better than I, what is best for their own progress and how their mind behaves) -- while for some, with maybe more delicate minds, smoking a cigarette might already be a serious breach of the Precept (and again, they would surely know themselves if reflecting on their actions).

[knighter]

I’ve learned through vipassana that as long as you’re aware that your smoking & it doesn’t impede your meditation practice then smoke. Sooner or later you’re bound to give up. Most important thing is equanimity.

[BrokenBones]

An Anagami or Arahant I don't believe would/could smoke. But a Sotapanna or Sakadagami could but possibly wouldn't smoke.

There are a hell of a lot more important and detrimental cravings to be given up first without getting all twisted about a cool, smooth and deliciously relaxing ciggie


Signed... an ex-smoker.

Public Health Warning...

Smoking is bad... it brings out all the Stalinist Health Experts, who when not getting drunk like to tell everybody how to live.

[Suddh]

I have read on this forum that smoking tobacco ciggarettes is not a breach of the 5th precept. Others disagree.

Is smoking tobacco a breach of the 5th precept or not?

How about e-ciggarettes (vaping)?

No and no.