Sex is always unwholesome

Exploring the Dhamma, as understood from the perspective of the ancient Pali commentaries.
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SteRo
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by SteRo »

Ceisiwr wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:24 am
SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:26 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:24 am

Are you really refraining then though? Doesn’t seem like.
Asexuals usually are refraining. Ok some may be forced psychologically without enjoying it. And if you feel disgust why would you want to have sex?

It is refraining if you don’t feel the urge to begin with.
That's the case with asexuals. They are free from that urge.
Ceisiwr wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:24 am I feel disgust is too strong an emotion. Too close to vibhava-taṇhā.
That's a theoretical assessment. I think being free from bhava-taṇhā of sexual desire is more beneficial than the negative side of disgust might be harmful.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by Ceisiwr »

SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:31 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:24 am
SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:26 am

Asexuals usually are refraining. Ok some may be forced psychologically without enjoying it. And if you feel disgust why would you want to have sex?

It is refraining if you don’t feel the urge to begin with.
That's the case with asexuals. They are free from that urge.
Ceisiwr wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:24 am I feel disgust is too strong an emotion. Too close to vibhava-taṇhā.
That's a theoretical assessment. I think being free from bhava-taṇhā of sexual desire is more beneficial than the negative side of disgust might be harmful.


Typo. I meant to say it isn’t refraining if you don’t feel the urge to begin with.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
SteRo
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by SteRo »

Ceisiwr wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:50 am
SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:31 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:24 am


It is refraining if you don’t feel the urge to begin with.
That's the case with asexuals. They are free from that urge.
Ceisiwr wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:24 am I feel disgust is too strong an emotion. Too close to vibhava-taṇhā.
That's a theoretical assessment. I think being free from bhava-taṇhā of sexual desire is more beneficial than the negative side of disgust might be harmful.


Typo. I meant to say it isn’t refraining if you don’t feel the urge to begin with.
Ok. But that's even better if one does not have to refrain from what one is free from the outset.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Meezer77
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by Meezer77 »

Would a person who is asexual be allowed to become a monastic?
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Dan74
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by Dan74 »

Ceisiwr, why is it a concern for you? Sounds like sex is a personal non-issue.

I mean it would absurd for me to ask "is eating my faeces unwholesome according to Buddhism?" since this is literally the first time I am having this thought. So if you have no sexual urges, why worry if it's unwholesome if you had them and acted on them?
_/|\_
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by Ceisiwr »

Dan74 wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:57 am Ceisiwr, why is it a concern for you? Sounds like sex is a personal non-issue.

I mean it would absurd for me to ask "is eating my faeces unwholesome according to Buddhism?" since this is literally the first time I am having this thought. So if you have no sexual urges, why worry if it's unwholesome if you had them and acted on them?
I simply wanted to discuss if sex has an unwholesome root or not. It stemmed from a conversation I had with another person about certain types of sex being wholesome and other unwholesome.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by Ceisiwr »

Meezer77 wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:05 am Would a person who is asexual be allowed to become a monastic?

I don’t think there is any rule against it.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Dan74
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by Dan74 »

Ceisiwr wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:05 am
Dan74 wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:57 am Ceisiwr, why is it a concern for you? Sounds like sex is a personal non-issue.

I mean it would absurd for me to ask "is eating my faeces unwholesome according to Buddhism?" since this is literally the first time I am having this thought. So if you have no sexual urges, why worry if it's unwholesome if you had them and acted on them?
I simply wanted to discuss if sex has an unwholesome root or not. It stemmed from a conversation I had with another person about certain types of sex being wholesome and other unwholesome.
Right.

Maybe a more useful topic would be if idle chatter unrelated to practice or any practical aspect of one's life is unwholesome according to Buddhism?
_/|\_
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by Ceisiwr »

Dan74 wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:17 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:05 am
Dan74 wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:57 am Ceisiwr, why is it a concern for you? Sounds like sex is a personal non-issue.

I mean it would absurd for me to ask "is eating my faeces unwholesome according to Buddhism?" since this is literally the first time I am having this thought. So if you have no sexual urges, why worry if it's unwholesome if you had them and acted on them?
I simply wanted to discuss if sex has an unwholesome root or not. It stemmed from a conversation I had with another person about certain types of sex being wholesome and other unwholesome.
Right.

Maybe a more useful topic would be if idle chatter unrelated to practice or any practical aspect of one's life is unwholesome according to Buddhism?


Do you think this is idle chatter?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Dan74
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by Dan74 »

Ceisiwr wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:56 am
Dan74 wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:17 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:05 am

I simply wanted to discuss if sex has an unwholesome root or not. It stemmed from a conversation I had with another person about certain types of sex being wholesome and other unwholesome.
Right.

Maybe a more useful topic would be if idle chatter unrelated to practice or any practical aspect of one's life is unwholesome according to Buddhism?


Do you think this is idle chatter?
Well for you, it must be, since it has no relevance to what you deal with in your life-practice.
_/|\_
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Aloka
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by Aloka »

I seem to be getting completely lost with the direction this topic is going in. I think my bewilderment began to increase at the point where Dan 74 appeared again and then spoke about eating his faeces....


:shrug:


.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by Ceisiwr »

Dan74 wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:31 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:56 am
Dan74 wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:17 am

Right.

Maybe a more useful topic would be if idle chatter unrelated to practice or any practical aspect of one's life is unwholesome according to Buddhism?


Do you think this is idle chatter?
Well for you, it must be, since it has no relevance to what you deal with in your life-practice.

I don’t think it’s idle chatter to discuss aspects of the Dhamma regardless of if they are directly applicable to me or not. I’m currently not having sex or pursuing relationships but that doesn’t mean I can’t discuss Buddhist sexual ethics.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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robertk
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by robertk »

Dan74 wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:31 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:56 am
Dan74 wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:17 am

Right.

Maybe a more useful topic would be if idle chatter unrelated to practice or any practical aspect of one's life is unwholesome according to Buddhism?


Do you think this is idle chatter?
Well for you, it must be, since it has no relevance to what you deal with in your life-practice.
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MettaDevPrac
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by MettaDevPrac »

Would it be ethical, or unethical, to advise a married person that sex is always unwholesome?

Would it be ethical, or unethical, to advise an engaged person that sex is always unwholesome?

Would it be ethical, or unethical, to advise an unmarried person uncommitted to unrenunciate vows, that sex is always unwholesome?

Would it be ethical, or unethical, to advise an ordained person committed to renunciates vows, that sex is always unwholesome?

I think the answers may vary, depending on the interest and aspirations which exist. Maybe correct answers might be: probably unethical, probably unethical, it depends, and ethical...

I think the Vinaya has rules relevant to this, which guide the conduct of ordained renunciates. For laity, lay precepts and the Noble 8 Fold Path are guides to mental, verbal and bodily conduct.
- MettaDevPrac
LeeAnnet
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Re: Sex is always unwholesome

Post by LeeAnnet »

It's the first time I've heard that.
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