Important Terms of Service update regarding political matters

The latest news and updates about the Dhamma Wheel forum.
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27848
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Important Terms of Service update regarding political matters

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings all,

The Terms of Service have been updated and these changes come into effect immediately, so please familiarize yourself with these changes. The changes will not be enforced retrospectively to existing posts, but they do apply to all future conversation.

By way of background, in 2018 we launched a new discussion forum entitled Dhamma Wheel Engaged (or DWE for short) which is an "Engaged Buddhism forum, a nonsectarian community discussing the application of the Dharma to social and environmental issues." The reasons for doing so were outlined in this previous announcement.

For the most part, over the past two years, the differentiation between what subject matter is relevant to each forum has been rather clear cut. However, recently we have observed confusion about precisely where that line is drawn. We feel it is important that as a community of staff and members, that we are all as clear as possible on where the line is drawn. This is important so that participants in discussion can be clear on the boundary of what is permissible, and that we as moderators, can moderate that boundary. Accordingly, Dhamma Wheel staff have reviewed the Terms of Service, and building upon lessons learned over past two years, we are incorporating additional details in the Terms of Service.

I will now walk you through the changes, which I will bold in red...

1. Intention

Dhamma Wheel is an environment for the discussion of Theravada Buddhism. Special forums have been created for special areas of interest so please respect these boundaries. Conversation not within the scope of this forum, may potentially be allowable at other DW sites, such as Dharma Wheel Engaged or Dharma Wheel Mahayana.

...
This update is a reminder of why we are here, at this "Buddhist discussion forum on the Dhamma of Theravāda Buddhism". We have made other forums available for your use if you wish to discuss matters which fall outside the scope of this forum, so please avail yourself of these forums if you wish to discuss such matters with fellow Buddhists.

2. Speech

Any subject matter that may be off-topic or is intended to cause disruption or harm may be removed without notice. This includes, but is not restricted to: ...

k. Content of a political or economic nature that is not in traced back to Theravada doctrine. (Such discussion is allowed at DWE)
As such, posts which are disconnected to Theravada doctrine that discuss the merits or demerits of any specific political or economic system or political party are not allowed on this forum, but can be posted over at our sister forum: Dharma Wheel Engaged.

Facile, superficial efforts to meet this criteria such as "The Buddha was compassionate, therefore... [political discussion]" will be deemed inadequate, and more substantiation of any such postings will be required. As is the case with the existing provision against "unsubstantiated allegations against individuals or traditions" (TOS 2d), you might be granted the opportunity to substantiate your position, if staff deem it appropriate to the situation.

"Content" includes any written text, as well as embedded content such as pictures, videos, and tweets.

If in doubt, please ask staff via PM, or take it to Dharma Wheel Engaged, so as to avoid unnecessary disruption.

3. Action

The following actions are not permitted at Dhamma Wheel:...

i. Proselytizing and evangelizing other paths or doctrines, whether spiritual or secular
...
Provision 3i of the Terms of Service previously read "Proselytizing or evangelizing other spiritual paths". This has been expanded in the recognition than not all "paths", or -isms, are necessary religious, by nature (e.g. vegetarianism, socialism, totalitarianism).

:anjali:

I hope this explanation was helpful in terms of appraising you of these changes, which been developed collaboratively by all Dhamma Wheel staff. If you have any questions, or require any further clarification, feel free to ask your questions below. We will keep this announcement "open" for a period of time to allow for such discussion.

As with any change, we will be monitoring how it works in practice, and whether any further refinement of the Terms of Service would be beneficial, so feel free to provide any feedback on how it's playing out in practice over coming months to a member of staff, who will relay it back to the whole team.

:thanks:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
User avatar
Nicholas Weeks
Posts: 4210
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:26 pm
Location: USA West Coast

Re: Important Terms of Service update regarding political matters

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

For #1, do not forget poor old Dharma Paths for a third option.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27848
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Important Terms of Service update regarding political matters

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Nicholas,
Nicholas Weeks wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:45 am For #1, do not forget poor old Dharma Paths for a third option.
Certainly not forgotten, but since the link currently appears broken, it seemed imprudent to link to it yet.

If it comes back online, I shall include it.

Thank you for your suggestion.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
User avatar
Nicholas Weeks
Posts: 4210
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:26 pm
Location: USA West Coast

Re: Important Terms of Service update regarding political matters

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Nothing broken here is USA, looks fine on Chrome & Safari.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27848
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Important Terms of Service update regarding political matters

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Nicholas Weeks wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:59 am Nothing broken here is USA, looks fine on Chrome & Safari.
Strange - it was down for me yesterday and is again today. In that case, I'll add it.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 4016
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Important Terms of Service update regarding political matters

Post by Mr Man »

So to clarify, am I correct in thinking that under the new rules your post of a tweet by Candace Owens would not be allowed and my link to "Joint Statement of Solidarity with the black communities in the USA and the UK" signed by Ajahn Amaro would not be allowed and the link to the YouTube clip "Racism and Injustice a Buddhist Perspective" would not be allowed.
Thanks
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27848
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Important Terms of Service update regarding political matters

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Mr Man,

Thank you for your question.

It is now incumbent upon the person posting the content to clearly trace it back to Theravada scripture.

For example the following text from US President Donald Trump could not be shown in isolation...
President Donald J. Trump wrote:"We have to work together to confront bigotry and prejudice wherever they appear. But we'll make no progress and heal no wounds by falsely labeling tens of millions of decent Americans as racist."
... but it could be posted if it were accompanied by something that specifically traces what is posted back to the Pali Scriptures, such as the following...
Dhp 256-257 wrote:Not by passing arbitrary judgments does a man become just;
a wise man is he who investigates both right and wrong.
He who does not judge others arbitrarily, but passes judgment impartially according to the truth,
that sagacious man is a guardian of law and is called just.
Thus, it is shown how the potentially "political" content is an applied application of how justice and false accusations are accounted for in the Blessed One's teaching.

It is the legitimate and genuine attempt at traceability back to the scriptures that makes it allowable. Similarly, the content you mention would also need to be traced back by the person wanting to post it as content.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
JohnK
Posts: 1332
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:06 pm
Location: Tetons, Wyoming, USA

Re: Important Terms of Service update regarding political matters

Post by JohnK »

Per the above clarification, it seems to me that quoting a politician and demonstrating that what they said was consistent (or inconsistent) with scripture is for DWE not DW , but I may be missing something.
:anjali:
Those who grasp at perceptions & views wander the internet creating friction. [based on Sn4:9,v.847]
User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 4016
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Important Terms of Service update regarding political matters

Post by Mr Man »

retrofuturist wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:39 am
It is now incumbent upon the person posting the content to clearly trace it back to Theravada scripture.

For example the following text from US President Donald Trump could not be shown in isolation...
President Donald J. Trump wrote:"We have to work together to confront bigotry and prejudice wherever they appear. But we'll make no progress and heal no wounds by falsely labeling tens of millions of decent Americans as racist."
... but it could be posted if it were accompanied by something that explicitly traces what is posted back to the Pali Scriptures, such as the following...
Dhp 256-257 wrote:Not by passing arbitrary judgments does a man become just;
a wise man is he who investigates both right and wrong.
He who does not judge others arbitrarily, but passes judgment impartially according to the truth,
that sagacious man is a guardian of law and is called just.
Thus, it is shown how the potentially "political" content is an applied application of how justice and false accusations are accounted for in the Blessed One's teaching.

It is the legitimate and genuine attempt at traceability back to the scriptures that makes it allowable. Similarly, the content you mention would also need to be traced back by the person wanting to post it as content.


What? Trump’s words absolutely cannot be traced back to the scriptures. He does not base his words on Buddhist Scripture. The idea that anything Trump says can be explicitly traced back to the Pali Scriptures is ridiculous.
User avatar
Nicholas Weeks
Posts: 4210
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:26 pm
Location: USA West Coast

Re: Important Terms of Service update regarding political matters

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Mr Man wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:14 pm
What? Trump’s words absolutely cannot be traced back to the scriptures. He does not base his words on Buddhist Scripture. The idea that anything Trump says can be explicitly traced back to the Pali Scriptures is ridiculous.
Whereas every single English word written or spoken by anyone nowadays also cannot "be explicitly traced back to the Pali Scriptures" unless it is based on or a close paraphrase of translated Pali texts? Correct?

Absurd notion. :zzz:
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 4016
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Important Terms of Service update regarding political matters

Post by Mr Man »

Nicholas Weeks wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:54 pm
Mr Man wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:14 pm
What? Trump’s words absolutely cannot be traced back to the scriptures. He does not base his words on Buddhist Scripture. The idea that anything Trump says can be explicitly traced back to the Pali Scriptures is ridiculous.
Whereas every single English word written or spoken by anyone nowadays also cannot "be explicitly traced back to the Pali Scriptures" unless it is based on or a close paraphrase of translated Pali texts? Correct?

Absurd notion. :zzz:
Yes it is an absurd notion. Who introduced this absurd notion?

When Buddhist (or those with an interest) speak about Buddhism though it is fairly likely that their opinions will be influenced by Buddhism to some degree or with an aspiration to learn about Buddhism.

Trump is not a Buddhist and he is not speaking Buddhism. That is the reality even if you are a fan.
User avatar
Nicholas Weeks
Posts: 4210
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:26 pm
Location: USA West Coast

Re: Important Terms of Service update regarding political matters

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Mr Man wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:13 pm
Nicholas Weeks wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:54 pm
Mr Man wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:14 pm
What? Trump’s words absolutely cannot be traced back to the scriptures. He does not base his words on Buddhist Scripture. The idea that anything Trump says can be explicitly traced back to the Pali Scriptures is ridiculous.
Whereas every single English word written or spoken by anyone nowadays also cannot "be explicitly traced back to the Pali Scriptures" unless it is based on or a close paraphrase of translated Pali texts? Correct?

Absurd notion. :zzz:
Yes it is an absurd notion. Who introduced this absurd notion?

When Buddhist (or those with an interest) speak about Buddhism though it is fairly likely that their opinions will be influenced by Buddhism to some degree or with an aspiration to learn about Buddhism.

Trump is not a Buddhist and he is not speaking Buddhism. That is the reality even if you are a fan.
Missing the point Mr Man - the notion that I considered 'absurd' was yours that demands 'explicit' links to Pali scriptures.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 4016
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Important Terms of Service update regarding political matters

Post by Mr Man »

Nicholas Weeks wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:26 pm
Mr Man wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:13 pm
Nicholas Weeks wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:54 pm

Whereas every single English word written or spoken by anyone nowadays also cannot "be explicitly traced back to the Pali Scriptures" unless it is based on or a close paraphrase of translated Pali texts? Correct?

Absurd notion. :zzz:
Yes it is an absurd notion. Who introduced this absurd notion?

When Buddhist (or those with an interest) speak about Buddhism though it is fairly likely that their opinions will be influenced by Buddhism to some degree or with an aspiration to learn about Buddhism.

Trump is not a Buddhist and he is not speaking Buddhism. That is the reality even if you are a fan.
Missing the point Mr Man - the notion that I considered 'absurd' was yours that demands 'explicit' links to Pali scriptures.
That is not mine. That is Paul's. Read the text that I quoted.
but it could be posted if it were accompanied by something that explicitly traces what is posted back to the Pali Scriptures, such as the following...
User avatar
Nicholas Weeks
Posts: 4210
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:26 pm
Location: USA West Coast

Re: Important Terms of Service update regarding political matters

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Gad, like pulling teeth is understanding with words on a screen.

Last effort - supplying supportive ideas, concepts or notions suggested by Pali text quotes is what I (& Paul?) mean.

You seem to want explicit Dhamma words linked to a Buddhist person's Dhamma words. This is close to impossible and silly when applied to worldly, non-Buddhist public figures.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 4016
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Important Terms of Service update regarding political matters

Post by Mr Man »

Nicholas Weeks wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:27 pm Gad, like pulling teeth is understanding with words on a screen.

Last effort - supplying supportive ideas, concepts or notions suggested by Pali text quotes is what I (& Paul?) mean.

You seem to want explicit Dhamma words linked to a Buddhist person's Dhamma words. This is close to impossible and silly when applied to worldly, non-Buddhist public figures.
Yes it is like pulling teeth. I don't want "explicit Dhamma words linked to a Buddhist person's Dhamma words"

These are Paul's words not mine = "accompanied by something that explicitly traces what is posted back to the Pali Scriptures" Do you understand that?
Locked